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[Intel] Sept 2024 (Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Silent_Scone
Super Moderator

 

September 25th Update:

Beta BIOS Links (microcode 0x12B)

Note: Some pages may not have propagated, please check back later

Z760

  • PROART B760-CREATOR
  • PROART B760-CREATOR D4
  • PROART B760-CREATOR WIFI

    Intel Community Forum
    Intel has localized the Vmin Shift Instability issue to a clock tree circuit within the IA core which is particularly vulnerable to reliability aging under elevated voltage and temperature. Intel has observed these conditions can lead to a duty cycle shift of the clocks and observed system instability.  

Intel has identified four (4) operating scenarios that can lead to Vmin shift in affected processors:

  1. Motherboard power delivery settings exceeding Intel power guidance. 
    a.  Mitigation: Intel Default Settings recommendations for Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors.  
  2. eTVB Microcode algorithm which was allowing Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen i9 desktop processors to operate at higher performance states even at high temperatures. 
    a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x125 (June 2024) addresses eTVB algorithm issue.  
  3. Microcode SVID algorithm requesting high voltages at a frequency and duration which can cause Vmin shift. 
    a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x129 (August 2024) addresses high voltages requested by the processor.  
  4. Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity. 
    a.  Mitigation: Intel is releasing microcode 0x12B, which encompasses 0x125 and 0x129 microcode updates, and addresses elevated voltage requests by the processor during idle and/or light activity periods.  

Regarding the 0x12B update, Intel is working with its partners to roll out the relevant BIOS update to the public.

Intel’s internal testing comparing 0x12B microcode to 0x125 microcode – on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5200MT/s memory1  - indicates performance impact is within run-to-run variation (ie. Cinebench* R23, Speedometer*, WebXPRT4*, Crossmark*). For gaming workloads on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5600MT/s memory2, performance is also within run-to-run variation (ie. Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, Cyberpunk* 2077, Hitman 3: Dartmoor*, Total War: Warhammer III – Mirrors of Madness*). However, system performance is dependent on configuration and several other factors.

Intel® reaffirms that both Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen mobile processors and future client product families – including the codename Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake families - are unaffected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue. We appreciate our customers’ patience throughout the investigation, as well as our partners’ support in the analysis and relevant mitigations. 

______________________________

August 2024

Hi all,

This update will be pinned here for clarity on the ongoing situation with some 13th and 14th-gen CPUs experiencing instability exhibited at stock.

Intel has issued the following statement (07/22/2024)

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/July-2024-Update-on-Instability-Reports-on-Intel-Core-13th...

For CPUs that exhibit unstable behaviour

Ensure you're on the latest BIOS for your motherboard

Update your motherboard BIOS to the latest revision containing microcode 0x125. Whilst this ucode revision does not resolve the issue, Intel has clarified that it contains fixes within microcode pertinent to Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (ETVB) behaviour that results in unexpected boost behaviour under certain thermal conditions.

Use Intel Base Profiles
The latest BIOS for your motherboard should contain Performance Preference options for Intel Base profiles. Ensure Intel Default Settings is selected. If using a 13th-Gen or 14th Gen i9 processor, choose Profile Performance.
If not selected already, ensure that SVID Behaviour is set to Intel Fail Safe

My CPU is running hotter using Intel Base Profiles than Asus Optimised, is this normal?
Yes, it can be normal for your CPU to run hotter than usual when using Intel base profiles. This occurs because following Intel's guidelines more closely often results in higher core voltages under certain workloads. Previously, motherboard vendors set the Load-Line Calibration (LLC) lower than Intel's recommendations to achieve lower temperatures while still delivering high performance. However, depending on your motherboard adhering to Intel's guidelines can lead to increased voltages whilst operating within Intel's current limits. This can result in higher operating temperatures depending on the workload.

Silent_Scone_0-1721817433799.png

Disable XMP

XMP is considered overclocking. To eliminate overclocking instability XMP should be disabled if experiencing crashing or unstable behaviour. Be sure to retest the behaviour at DRAM defaults.

Evaluate Cooling

Ensure your CPU cooling is working within the expected realms. If still experiencing instability under the conditions described above, consider reapplying the thermal application and removing any third-party CPU contact frames which may impact signal integrity.

Is my CPU damaged?

If still experiencing instability at Optimised Defaults [Intel - Performance / Extreme Profile] with XMP overclocking disabled, you will need to contact Intel.

I've read there was a fabrication issue with oxidisation, Intel has confirmed it.
This issue is unrelated to the ETVB behaviour and firmware and is a physical defect. Currently,  Intel has gone on record to state that a number of 13th-generation CPUs from 2023 are potentially impacted by this issue

ASUS FAQ

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090
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546 REPLIES 546

I think given how you're concerned you should stick to Intel Defaults. That's all one can say at this point. The ASUS Optimised profile offers thermal and performance benefits but still operates outside of what Intel has now conformed to its specification.

Silent_Scone_1-1723538276072.png

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Microcode-0x129-Update-for-Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-De...

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

Will setting XMP to enable also mess with intels settings ?

From the first pinned post, XMP is considered overclock. Please understand the high risk of compromising the CPU for this generation.
It's better to play with overclock with another platform (not Intel, maybe a future PC based on AMD). The 14th gen Intel it's recommended to be used with conservative settings. It has been written tons of times and this is clear....

14900KF / STRIX Z790-E WIFI II / TUF RX 7900 XTX / 64GB DDR5-6000 / 1000W Aura Gold PSU / iCUE Link H170i

Not ones that will impact the VID. Everything seems to have become "Intel settings" over the last couple of months, but XMP is overclocking.

The values in SPD for VDDQ/VDD are applied as well as VCCSA and IMC VDD/IVR values auto-scaling depending on the memory frequency.

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

Yeah you’re probably right. Least till people have had time to mess with this. I would just want to do a modest regular OC we all have for years.going past 1.55v sounds nut lol. I had my 9700k oc’d to 5ghz all cores at 1.35v for almost 7 years with no signs of issues. Now with all this I’m afraid any changes will kill the chip. Hope that’s not the case.  Anyway thanks for making that post and replying 

I just don't understand that statement. My understanding is unless you run the Intel profile, you don't get the 1.55v limit. But if I run the Intel profile, overclocking settings are locked in the Asus  Bios. Can't even change multipliers or anything. All you can do is undervolt with a global svid offset. That is not overclocking


ROG Dark Hero Z790 | 13900KS @5.7 GHz | g.skill 2x48GB 6800 MT/s | ROG Strix 4070 Ti | EK Nucleus 360 Dark | 6TB SSD/nvme, 16TB external HDD | 2x 1440p | Vanatoo speakers with Klipsch sub | Fractal North XL case

This was meaning more that it makes sense to ensure you're on the latest microcode regardless of what you aim to do with the CPU.

In terms of the voltage limit, please note that only Intel knows the extent of changes that go into the microcode, or even as much as if the ETVB update relates to the enforced voltage cap. RD has done extensive testing with the update though and confirmed that enabling ETVB does limit the voltage, it's just unclear how exactly they [Intel] are doing it.

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

******, I guess maybe the answer is no we can never overlock 🤦‍♂️ has anybody noticed this behavior with ASUS z790? https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/08/12/raptor_lake_cpu_microcode_patch/ 


@INDIANAJUNE2 wrote:

******, I guess maybe the answer is no we can never overlock 🤦‍♂️ has anybody noticed this behavior with ASUS z790? https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2024/08/12/raptor_lake_cpu_microcode_patch/ 


This is obviously true but thanks for bringing this up since it might be easily overlooked.

Even as the BIOS itself warns the user when anything but the INTEL Default Settings are chosen.

However, I would have expected the vendor to adjust their OC profiles to be more on the save side, eg not use unlimited power supply but stop it at some point.

PurSpyk
Level 8

If I can run Cinebench R23 and Unreal Engine 5.x games without issue, but Edge gives me random access violation and breakpoint errors what does this mean? Been pulling my hair out since purchasing the pc. Running Windows 11, RTX 4090, all latest drivers and updates installed.