cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

[Intel] Sept 2024 (Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

Silent_Scone
Super Moderator

 

September 25th Update:

Beta BIOS Links (microcode 0x12B)

Note: Some pages may not have propagated, please check back later

Z760

  • PROART B760-CREATOR
  • PROART B760-CREATOR D4
  • PROART B760-CREATOR WIFI

    Intel Community Forum
    Intel has localized the Vmin Shift Instability issue to a clock tree circuit within the IA core which is particularly vulnerable to reliability aging under elevated voltage and temperature. Intel has observed these conditions can lead to a duty cycle shift of the clocks and observed system instability.  

Intel has identified four (4) operating scenarios that can lead to Vmin shift in affected processors:

  1. Motherboard power delivery settings exceeding Intel power guidance. 
    a.  Mitigation: Intel Default Settings recommendations for Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors.  
  2. eTVB Microcode algorithm which was allowing Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen i9 desktop processors to operate at higher performance states even at high temperatures. 
    a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x125 (June 2024) addresses eTVB algorithm issue.  
  3. Microcode SVID algorithm requesting high voltages at a frequency and duration which can cause Vmin shift. 
    a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x129 (August 2024) addresses high voltages requested by the processor.  
  4. Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity. 
    a.  Mitigation: Intel is releasing microcode 0x12B, which encompasses 0x125 and 0x129 microcode updates, and addresses elevated voltage requests by the processor during idle and/or light activity periods.  

Regarding the 0x12B update, Intel is working with its partners to roll out the relevant BIOS update to the public.

Intel’s internal testing comparing 0x12B microcode to 0x125 microcode – on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5200MT/s memory1  - indicates performance impact is within run-to-run variation (ie. Cinebench* R23, Speedometer*, WebXPRT4*, Crossmark*). For gaming workloads on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5600MT/s memory2, performance is also within run-to-run variation (ie. Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, Cyberpunk* 2077, Hitman 3: Dartmoor*, Total War: Warhammer III – Mirrors of Madness*). However, system performance is dependent on configuration and several other factors.

Intel® reaffirms that both Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen mobile processors and future client product families – including the codename Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake families - are unaffected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue. We appreciate our customers’ patience throughout the investigation, as well as our partners’ support in the analysis and relevant mitigations. 

______________________________

August 2024

Hi all,

This update will be pinned here for clarity on the ongoing situation with some 13th and 14th-gen CPUs experiencing instability exhibited at stock.

Intel has issued the following statement (07/22/2024)

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/July-2024-Update-on-Instability-Reports-on-Intel-Core-13th...

For CPUs that exhibit unstable behaviour

Ensure you're on the latest BIOS for your motherboard

Update your motherboard BIOS to the latest revision containing microcode 0x125. Whilst this ucode revision does not resolve the issue, Intel has clarified that it contains fixes within microcode pertinent to Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (ETVB) behaviour that results in unexpected boost behaviour under certain thermal conditions.

Use Intel Base Profiles
The latest BIOS for your motherboard should contain Performance Preference options for Intel Base profiles. Ensure Intel Default Settings is selected. If using a 13th-Gen or 14th Gen i9 processor, choose Profile Performance.
If not selected already, ensure that SVID Behaviour is set to Intel Fail Safe

My CPU is running hotter using Intel Base Profiles than Asus Optimised, is this normal?
Yes, it can be normal for your CPU to run hotter than usual when using Intel base profiles. This occurs because following Intel's guidelines more closely often results in higher core voltages under certain workloads. Previously, motherboard vendors set the Load-Line Calibration (LLC) lower than Intel's recommendations to achieve lower temperatures while still delivering high performance. However, depending on your motherboard adhering to Intel's guidelines can lead to increased voltages whilst operating within Intel's current limits. This can result in higher operating temperatures depending on the workload.

Silent_Scone_0-1721817433799.png

Disable XMP

XMP is considered overclocking. To eliminate overclocking instability XMP should be disabled if experiencing crashing or unstable behaviour. Be sure to retest the behaviour at DRAM defaults.

Evaluate Cooling

Ensure your CPU cooling is working within the expected realms. If still experiencing instability under the conditions described above, consider reapplying the thermal application and removing any third-party CPU contact frames which may impact signal integrity.

Is my CPU damaged?

If still experiencing instability at Optimised Defaults [Intel - Performance / Extreme Profile] with XMP overclocking disabled, you will need to contact Intel.

I've read there was a fabrication issue with oxidisation, Intel has confirmed it.
This issue is unrelated to the ETVB behaviour and firmware and is a physical defect. Currently,  Intel has gone on record to state that a number of 13th-generation CPUs from 2023 are potentially impacted by this issue

ASUS FAQ

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090
97,656 Views
553 REPLIES 553

kalo86
Level 10

I really hope that this is the real solution. I will wait further testing of the microcode and relative ASUS motherboard BIOS.
I have a question: since the root cause has been identified, does it make sense to keep the latest BIOS update in the website?
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-STRIX-Z790-E-GAMING-WIFI-II-ASUS-1402.zip?model=ROG%2...

In my opinion, this BIOS should be removed as soon as possible.

14900KF / STRIX Z790-E WIFI II / TUF RX 7900 XTX / 64GB DDR5-6000 / 1000W Aura Gold PSU / iCUE Link H170i

Why do you say that? Isn't the eTVB bug also a problem that needs fixing?

Can you explain why you think the BIOS needs to be removed? It contains a microcode update which is related to the behavioural changes Intel are working on.

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

Intel while investigating the cause of the instability and other issues with some 13th and 14th gen K processors discovered that there was a fault with eTVB (Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost). The current BIOS update includes the new microcode 0x125 that fixes that fault. I can't see any reason why the eTVB issue should be left unfixed until August. The August microcode update should be the final one that is needed. It may also need a ME firmware update, we'll see.

kalo86
Level 10

After reading many feedback about the crashes on Intel Core i9 13th and 14th gen CPU, I understand that the microcode 0x125 is not the fix of the overheating issue causing instability. For this reason, considering also the risk that the BIOS upgrade causes on many users, I don't know if it's worth to keep a BIOS update which is not fully fixing the issue. This is what I understood after reading many posts in the Internet (not only on this ROG Forum).

14900KF / STRIX Z790-E WIFI II / TUF RX 7900 XTX / 64GB DDR5-6000 / 1000W Aura Gold PSU / iCUE Link H170i

I haven't yet updated to 1402 because I did hear reports from people that the CPU temps go up following the update. I'm not really sure how that's being done, maybe the new BIOS increases the AC LL value or tunes the SVID behaviour in the interest of bringing greater stability to users. People on r/Intel who tested the new BIOS say they do operate at higher temps now.

Either way, it's possible that updating the microcode is not the ONLY thing that 1402 does.

However, those methods (LL calibration & SVID tuning) would both result in higher operating voltages (in turn resulting in higher temps). Increasing voltage to bring back lost stability is indeed done by many...but that would fly directly in the face of what Intel is NOW saying is the root cause of degradation. It might actually make the problem worse in the long term in exchange for short-term stability fixes.

It's not yet clear if 1402 was rushed out to bring some stability to users experiencing crashes BEFORE Intel found out that elevated voltage was a problem. I guess we cannot rule out that some rollback/patch for this BIOS might come out before the actual final microcode fix comes next month.

Anyone here who has the new BIOS, please do pitch in with what your experiences wrt temps/voltage have been before & after the update.

The microcode and ME firmware should stay firmly put. Nothing you're saying makes objective sense.

Silent_Scone_0-1721754999693.png

 

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

Electronic_Punk
Level 9

So,as,I read it, if your system is already crashing with the ASUS profiles and tweaked Xmp then it’s too late but this new code will stop it happening for new chips?

My system has been stable ith intel profiles, no crashes for over a week, might it be ok? Really cannot be bothered with rma

chorde
Level 7

Hi i post like a the beggining of july that my system wasnt stable with the latest bios and that only work with one done in february..well I gotta say that the new bios work 1661 and games runs fine, the only thing that misses to me to check if I can run dx12 on some games, ill update the posty later maybe tomorrow or tonight

I just checked the compatibility, battlefield 2042 and BF1 runs fine, atomic heart too

Thanks to the coders, they really do the soup tasty again.