Core Performance Boost Buggy...

[JackBauerz]

I didn't see this sub-forum and posted elsewhere.

I just submitted a bug report on the issue where fans are oscillating for no reason. I tracked it further to see it was happening in bios, with no load other than the bios config program. CPU speed and Vcore was oscillating HUGELY. CPU voltage was hitting 1.5v. No reason whatsoever for, in bios, the system to be surging CPU frequency and voltage like that.

With CPB turned off, temp is stable at 32C. Straight line. Issue images at the thread:
http://www.overclock.net/forum/11-amd-motherboards/1659225-zenith-extreme-cpu-core-voltage-oscillati...

The thread I created here is at:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?100059-Zenith-Extreme-1950x-CPU-voltage-and-temps-oscillat...

Support says to send the board in for Service. I just don't see how I can run Prime95 at load (with CPB turned off / 3.4Ghz), and only hit like 1.134 Vcore... System stable... Yet in BIOS with CPB turned on it oscillates between 1.2xx and 1.5xx volts. And they are suggesting a defective board. Just seems more like a BIOS issue.

Any other insight before I actually RMA this board? (And maybe get a different model/brand)

[gupsterg]

Do not waste your time.

There is nothing wrong with board/platform.

UEFI is mini operating system, thus it allows much more than Legacy BIOS did.

When CPU is stock and CPB is [Auto] or [Enabled], CPU can use Precision Boost/Extended Frequency Range. Thus you will see CPU frequency and voltage of that context.

When you disable CPB, CPU can only go to PState 0 (ie base clock), PState 0 contains a ceiling VID, SMU based on silicon characteristics will determine VCORE. For example a 1950X will have ceiling VID of 1.1625V, differing CPU used on same board will exhibit differing VCORE even with same settings as SMU is setting voltage.



When you OC, you OC PState 0. So say if you use offset mode voltage you will be using ceiling VID + offset. So HWINFO will show VID as 1.1625V as in 1950X example. CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) will be VID + Offset and account for losses, etc across power plane as that is telemetry from CPU, it has 6.25mV granularity. CPU voltage under ASUS ROG Zenith Extreme heading in HWINFO will be CPU voltage from VRM control chip, it has 21.8mV granularity.

Threadripper has 40 on die temp sensors, some rotating goes on plus highest is shown as temperature.

[JackBauerz]

Thank you gupsterg.

I apologize for the multiple posts here - and at OC... I just didn't really find the right places to post at first. I'm grateful for all your responses.

I posted a reply over there at:

http://www.overclock.net/forum/11-amd-motherboards/1659225-zenith-extreme-cpu-core-voltage-oscillati...

I still struggle to understand why the CPB would boost CPU voltage higher under BIOS or in Windows under low loads, compared to running Prime95 for 20 minutes. Peaking at like 1.462v I think (again low loads) versus 1.063v under Prime95. (both with CPB on)

It just seems crazy to me that it would be boosting Vcore (and CPU speed) on an oscillative fashion, with very little load.

[gupsterg]

No problem 🙂 , no need to apologise 🙂 .

Time for some visual aids and an experiment you can emulate easily. Get Statuscore from here.

My CPU is stock, only RAM OC.

1 thread active on a die.



Even if CPU has high VCORE it is low load of amps/watts. If you see a difference of MHz between HWINFO and Statuscore it will be as polling interval differs between each.





Above 3 screens is probably about what happens in UEFI, I will get a wall meter power reading for you of idle in OS vs UEFI load on CPU. Once a 5th thread is active we can see all cores boost max of 3.7GHz occurs for 1950X we have.



If threads are across the 2 dies we see differing behaviour.



Once 5th thread is on each die again max ACB kicks in.



Below is all current TR boost info.



I hope this helps 🙂 .

*** edit ***

CPU stock, OS idle with CPB: On, complete rig inc screen us ~120W from wall meter. Next UEFI with same settings is ~200W, with CPB: Off is ~200W. When UEFI I see ~1.024V when CPB off and like you see upto ~1.5V with CPB on.

[JackBauerz]

Again my gratitude for you taking the time not just to respond - but doing real work, taking screenshots, etc..

You're one awesome dude.... 🙂

Ok I think I'm getting closer.

1) Was "ACB" a typo and it should have been CPB? I can't tell for sure.
2) So if you're stock, meaning the base frequency is 3.4GHz on these 1950's... But you're saying CPB allows it to boost automatically to 4.x GHz with less than 5 threads, and once 5 hits, it only boosts to 3.7GHz. Right?
3) Are you also saying that the temperature in UEFI is surging because the TR has 40 temperature sensors and it is displaying the max value of those sensors, and the CPU is pushing the core that is running UEFI to a very high frequency (and Vcore) just because it wants to throw max power at it... Since it's only using one core that means 4.0Ghz or so?

Ok assuming I am following you ok... Two thoughts...

1) I'll have to put my power monitor on my comptuer because there's just no way I can believe that right now, with almost no apps running on my computer... And HWINFO suggesting my CPU package power is 50W, that my PC is really pulling as much power as if my processors were loaded. 🙂 (I have CPB off right now)
2) IMHO there's a defect somewhere - in BIOS, or whatever... Because with CPB enabled, and only one thread running... Or within WIndows, the fans oscillating up and down are FAR more annoying than a constant speed. If only one of the 16 cores is actually using real power there is no real need to be cycling the fan up and down like that.

Is my understanding off anywhere?

Thanks again man 🙂

[gupsterg]

Core Performance Boost is terminology by ASUS for Precision Boost (PB)/Extended Frequency Range (XFR), which is AMD terminology for core boosting tech. ACB = All Cores Boost, so under CPB/PB/XFR max ACB for TR 1950X is 3.7GHz.

As shown this is when 5 threads+ are engaged on any die. If you have say 5 threads on one die (ie 0-16 in Statuscore) and 4 on other (17-32), the 17-32 cores can boost above 3.7GHz as System Management Unit (SMU) on CPU die, when CPB/PB/XFR is active, may have determined there was "headroom" to do so. IF loading was high for 5 threads on one die and 4 on other you would only see 3.7GHz MAX as SMU determined it can only do that.

Bare in mind that monitoring can not read back as quickly as CPU is doing CPB/PB/XFR. So you could say run a bench test with lower CPU load and gain boosting that averages well that it is so close to a higher all cores OC done manually.

Yes the sporadic jumps in temperature are due to CPB/PB/XFR occurring when in UEFI at stock and is as there are 40 temp sensors being shown as one, as stated before some rotating goes on and highest value is shown. Even if the UEFI is mini operating system it would not be the same as full OS on using platform optimally. Also due to how CPB/PB/XFR works and the UEFI is low load vs another app in OS, so boosting could be occurring. When in OS also CPU uses "power gating" and other funky stuff to be as efficient as it can.

Yes use a power meter and see for yourself 🙂 . I have had Ryzen/ASUS Crosshair VI Hero since launch, I have used 3x R7 1700 and 2x R7 1800X with it besides other HW. I have had Threadripper/ASUS Zenith Extreme since launch as well. There is no defect in what you are experiencing. You currently do not understand how the boost tech works and I mean no offence by this to you.

For each fan header there is Fan Smoothing option in UEFI, use that if you need it. All fan headers except CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT and W_PUMP+ do not allow a differing temperature source. You could use the included temperature probes as sources for fan profile and have no jumps as CPU temp jumps. I use water loop temperature to control fans/pump via UEFI, T_SENSOR1.

[JackBauerz]

Ok I'm getting it 🙂

A few more insights...

1) It seems very few people understand this. It's not like my post generated tons of responses, and of course Asus support was not helpful.
2) If the 1950x can boost individual cores to over 4GHz, when people OC, they're really just manually moving that 5 core limit out of the way?
3) Why do you only boost memory? Just curious. I have G.skill RAM (not on the list) but it does seem to work properly at 3200. I've yet to understand the need for Thaiphoon Burner, but people rave about it.
4) Now I just have to figure out whether I use fan smoothing in UEFI (and uninstall AI Suite) or use Fan Xpert within AI Suite. AI Suite does provide a convenient way to switch profiles. I finally have seemingly managed to get my SSD temperatures stable by increasing my GPU fan speed .

Oh and I don't suppose you use nvme on your Zenith Extreme?

Thanks again!

PS. I put on my Kill-a-watt. PC only, CPB off, in UEFI: 106-107W. CPB ON, in UEFI: 116-117W. So CPB enabled, running just UEFI, adds literally 10W of load. (No fan smoothing enabled, but the fan wouldn't wouldn't make up that much power, plus it stayed within 1-2 watts of both 106 and 116 numbers.

[gupsterg]

1) This forum is quiet. Even on OCN/OCUK (busy forums) response to TR can be low, as it is newish/high end platform.

2) In a way. CPB/PB/XFR gets disabled when CPU engages OC mode. OC mode is engaged when "Base Clock/PState 0" is shifted +25MHz from stock. So on TR 1950X 34.25 ratio or 3425MHz would do that. When CPU enters OC mode voltage will snap to ceiling VID, in the case of TR 1950C 1.1625V. We have no access to CPB/PB/XFR parameters, so we can't shift it for tweaking.

3) Ryzen/Threadripper can have nice gains from RAM OC only. RAM MHz and Infinity Fabric Speed (Data Fabric) is linked, so @ 2133MHz DFICLK = 1066MHz, 3466MHz = 1733MHz. Why I like stock R7 1800X / TR 1950X is it has real nice boost for lower thread count and it is hard to gain the same clocks as an OC. They also have reasonable all cores boost clock, as it does not hinder my usage experience I quite like them at stock. Thaiphoon Burner can get you a lot of info on RAM, as Ryzen/Threadripper gains well from RAM tweaks people like that info 🙂 . Also Ryzen/Threadripper IMC favours one RAM IC pretty much above all else, so again this tool is handy. It can also allow tweaking of SPD data, flashing and has database of SPD files, all this is on licensed copy.

4) I use UEFI to set anything relating to platform, I avoid OC SW, just always been PITA for me. I use MSI AB only for monitoring when want data as graph, otherwise it's HWINFO. I do not have NVMe yet 😮 , planning on it, just gotta get the wife a present so she doesn't do horrible stuff to me in my sleep :p.