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LLC (Load Line Calibration) not working... Bios fix required ASAP

morph_
Level 11
Any eta on when there will be a bios patch/fix for LLC?

Vdrop is just too high at the moment it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCAQpvFhiUs
91,183 Views
138 REPLIES 138

Could we all try to become constructive again, please ?
Raja's answers were very instructive, and if another Asus rep has joined the thread, he had better give us explanations and hints rather than express his despise for customers that don't own his high skills nor his appliances. Denying the existence of any concern is nowhere helping us to have the best experience with the product.

Intel seems to have messed things about voltages on this generation of CPU, and is probably liable for a part of the difficulties encountered. MB manufacturers and monitoring softwares editors have to deal with that.

For example, in the latest Asus BIOS, a new setting was introduced, called SVID behavior. According to other forums, it can take two values, best or worse scenario, and the vcore called by the CPU (vid) is different in an extent up to several hundreds of mV. That proves that things are far more complicated than some pretends, and that workarounds are being introduced progressively.

Therefore, a bit more pedagogy and a few tutorials (even if each chip is unique) from Asus rep aware of relevant tweaks would be welcome.*

JustinThyme
Level 13
@Kale Praz is with ASUS and showing you that the performance of what you get with an earlier version is well within range and margin of error. Its also is state that while Vdroop is not optimal its workable and what you get from the budget minded boards.

Thank you Praz for ending this nonsense started by a youtube buffoon who obviously has read and applies excerpts from the book...If you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with BS.

What most are failing to accept here is you bought an economy low end motherboard and are expecting the same results as the high end Maximus boards. If that were the case there would be no sales of high end boards. It equates to buying a Hyundai Accent and expecting to run it against a Bugatti Veyron. This level of board is aimed at the limited budget/frugal consumers who do not expect to get extreme overclocking and are just running at or close to stock speeds. Are there boards that are even cheaper? Sure but that doesn't make them any better. The old adage you get what you pay for certainly applies here. Take the entire line up of the Z-370 ASUS offerings and arrange them by price point. The low end starts around $189 USD and at this point the high end is the M10 Apex at $349 USD. The Extreme hasnt been launched as its always late to the dance and will come in surely in the $550 USD price range.

So just taking whats at hand am I correct to assume people are expecting to get the same performance out of the low end boards as those who pony up and pay for a board that has better components, more R&D, stricter guidelines etc? Im not knocking those on a budget, just saying don't expect the best experience of the game from the cheap seats and stop taking what what OC3D says as gospel. He presents a point of view, nothing more and honestly a 20 minute video of talking with nothing to back up it even rationalize the rant is demeaning and voids any credibility.



“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, I'm not sure about the former” ~ Albert Einstein

JustinThyme wrote:
@Kale Praz is with ASUS and showing you that the performance of what you get with an earlier version is well within range and margin of error. Its also is state that while Vdroop is not optimal its workable and what you get from the budget minded boards.

Thank you Praz for ending this nonsense started by a youtube buffoon who obviously has read and applies excerpts from the book...If you cant dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with BS.

What most are failing to accept here is you bought an economy low end motherboard and are expecting the same results as the high end Maximus boards. If that were the case there would be no sales of high end boards. It equates to buying a Hyundai Accent and expecting to run it against a Bugatti Veyron. This level of board is aimed at the limited budget/frugal consumers who do not expect to get extreme overclocking and are just running at or close to stock speeds. Are there boards that are even cheaper? Sure but that doesn't make them any better. The old adage you get what you pay for certainly applies here. Take the entire line up of the Z-370 ASUS offerings and arrange them by price point. The low end starts around $189 USD and at this point the high end is the M10 Apex at $349 USD. The Extreme hasnt been launched as its always late to the dance and will come in surely in the $550 USD price range.

So just taking whats at hand am I correct to assume people are expecting to get the same performance out of the low end boards as those who pony up and pay for a board that has better components, more R&D, stricter guidelines etc? Im not knocking those on a budget, just saying don't expect the best experience of the game from the cheap seats and stop taking what what OC3D says as gospel. He presents a point of view, nothing more and honestly a 20 minute video of talking with nothing to back up it even rationalize the rant is demeaning and voids any credibility.


I'm sorry, but you sound like a complete ass. You're telling me that I can't overclock unless I spend $400+ on a motherboard? At that point I might as well give up on PCs altogether. You are being a complete snob. If Asus is selling entry-level motherboards for over $200, that's a problem with the company, not the consumer. If that's the message they want to send, then they should just say it now so I know never to buy or recommend Asus products again. And no, nobody is expecting Maximus results. We're expecting a properly working mid-range motherboard. I guess that's a crime in your eyes.

JustinThyme wrote:
Thanks for editing out where you were calling out one of the top dogs for ASUS North America *for something clearly provided.*
The biggest take away is don’t believe everything OC3D rants about and don’t trust 3rd party software for readings on a new platform for which they have not developed it for.*

I think the ASUS reps handled themselves very professionally considering the abusive bantering that comprises most of this thread. *


You're a fanboy, so obviously you think it was fine. I edited it because I realized it was wrong. I'll put it back if it'll make you happy. Or I'll just see if I can find an ignore button on this forum because fanboys aren't worth dealing with.

JustinThyme
Level 13
No Fanboy here, just pointing out the obvious. I use ASUS products because they are solid and haven’t let me down unlike my several tries with others.*
Feedback here is and always has been welcomed so long as it’s *constructive. *

Raja *and Praz have always been helpful. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar. *I’m sure if you ask either for pointers to get the best results with what you have they will chime in and at least try to help you out.*

Praz just posted this now as he took the time to procure a sample, put it on a bench, connect a DVM to the necessary points and run the tests. It’s not like all ASUS reps keep a complete inventory of the entire product line waiting for someone to post here with perceived issues based on a YouTube rant. *



“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, I'm not sure about the former” ~ Albert Einstein

JustinThyme wrote:
No Fanboy here, just pointing out the obvious. I use ASUS products because they are solid and haven’t let me down unlike my several tries with others.*
Feedback here is and always has been welcomed so long as it’s *constructive. *

Raja *and Praz have always been helpful. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar. *I’m sure if you ask either for pointers to get the best results with what you have they will chime in and at least try to help you out.*

Praz just posted this now as he took the time to procure a sample, put it on a bench, connect a DVM to the necessary points and run the tests. It’s not like all ASUS reps keep a complete inventory of the entire product line waiting for someone to post here with perceived issues based on a YouTube rant. *


You're doing it again. You're just trying to discredit OC3D because you believe Asus can do no wrong. At the end of the day, there was a UEFI update to fix it, which means that there was something to fix. Without this rant which has personally offended you for some reason, it would have gone unnoticed. You are a fanboy, even if you don't realize it. There's no other reason for you to keep personally attacking someone for doing his job.

Tech Hog wrote:
You're doing it again. You're just trying to discredit OC3D because you believe Asus can do no wrong. At the end of the day, there was a UEFI update to fix it, which means that there was something to fix. Without this rant which has personally offended you for some reason, it would have gone unnoticed. You are a fanboy, even if you don't realize it. There's no other reason for you to keep personally attacking someone for doing his job.

I like TTL, but he's not infallible (nor does he ever claim to be). He runs a pretty reasonable and objective testing regime that reflects what typical users are likely to see. If he runs into a problem, he contacts the appropriate parties and if it turns out the problem was an ID10T error or something more subtle, he posts updates, but until all is said and done, confusion is inevitable and the only ones who are 100% wrong are those who starting slinging blame and hate around without understanding that we are in "early days" here so problems can be hardware, software, CPU, MB, user error or some combination(s) of all of the above.

"Everyone"TM (those complaining loudly) is waiting with their opinion fully formed to jump on any evidence of that supports their foregone conclusion. They expect instant gratification and vilification of any mistake which just isn't possible in any form of "science" where you take measurements, draw conclusions, communicate to others who either confirm or refute your findings and we iterate TOWARD the truth, but honest scientists understand perfect truth is process not a destination (you never get there, there is no "settled science").

Anyway - that's a long way of saying - relax...

cekim wrote:
I like TTL, but he's not infallible (nor does he ever claim to be). He runs a pretty reasonable and objective testing regime that reflects what typical users are likely to see. If he runs into a problem, he contacts the appropriate parties and if it turns out the problem was an ID10T error or something more subtle, he posts updates, but until all is said and done, confusion is inevitable and the only ones who are 100% wrong are those who starting slinging blame and hate around without understanding that we are in "early days" here so problems can be hardware, software, CPU, MB, user error or some combination(s) of all of the above.

"Everyone"TM (those complaining loudly) is waiting with their opinion fully formed to jump on any evidence of that supports their foregone conclusion. They expect instant gratification and vilification of any mistake which just isn't possible in any form of "science" where you take measurements, draw conclusions, communicate to others who either confirm or refute your findings and we iterate TOWARD the truth, but honest scientists understand perfect truth is process not a destination (you never get there, there is no "settled science").

Anyway - that's a long way of saying - relax...


I never said that he was infallible. My only issue is with the way that Asus employees and fanboys are attacking him just for not doing it the way they feel it should be done, even though he was right at the end of the day. He called Asus and told them what was happening, and they ignored it because it's not a Maximus problem. Then this thread comes along and he's being called an incompetent hack for daring to tarnish Asus's good name. And the best part? This was such a simple thing to test that it all could have been avoided by Asus just testing to make sure after he called them. Instead, they just went "lol software" because they apparently want users and reviewers to do their QC for them. Now that backfired, and it's damage control time.

Honestly, I hope that Asus never sends him a sample again. You know why? Because then, if he still ends up reviewing them, I know I don't have to worry about Asus pulling some kind of deal for a good score. The way this was done is just super shady. In fact, I'll take it step further and say that I bet Asus will only give out samples for Maximus/Rampage/Crosshair/Zenith boards now just so they don't have to worry about being called out for their poor QC with lower end boards again. It seems obvious where priorities are now, no doubt.

And yes, I know it's early and that growing pains are expected. However, everything about this is pointing to Asus being dragged kicking and screaming into this, and without this video, there would either be no fix or just that Praz post saying, "It's okay, there's a workaround to our non-functioning UEFI setting, so we don't need to fix anything! You're holding it wrong!" So no, it's not enough for me and it's something that'll stick with me so long as Asus feels that people who don't spend $300+ on their hardware deserve a fully functioning product.

Praz
Level 13
Hello

I think something needs to be cleared up. I am not an ASUS rep. I do work with ASUS and have done so for years but that is as far as it goes. The plus to this relationship is I do not have to deal with pretentious or arrogant personalities. Users have posted that they have not received the LLC updates for their boards when the fix was posted for other boards. Raja indicated that some of the models may not get this update because of the VRM design. My post was an effort to help those still facing this issue with a workaround that although not perfect could be lived with. As far as not stating the tweaks needed to get VDROOP under control I didn't realize the necessity of stating the obvious. Raja has already posted to experiment with IA AC and DC Load Line settings. Sure there are a couple of more obscure settings that may also affect the amount of VDROOP seen but if left at default appear to cause no issue. And to be honest the level of knowledge displayed in this thread there is no reason for me to think anyone would be adjusting these settings.

I will always do what I can to help anyone that has issues and are actually looking for assistance. For anyone that this applies to please start a new thread regarding your problem and I will try to help. For others that want to use the pretense of help as a platform to whine or argue their unfounded assumptions I have neither the motivation nor time to engage. As such this is my last post in this thread so unless replying gives one some type of self-satisfaction time would be better spent moving on.

Raja
Level 13
Thread closed. If you have questions regarding setup, please open a new thread and detail the issue.