Rampage V Windows lockup fault codes fd and 61 solved!

[AquaRelliux]

Hello everyone

I would like to share some research I did on this board. I have notcied that many users seem to have problems with thier windows hanging on loading screen. This is my previous post about it:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?54591-Windows-boot-uo-hangs-with-fault-codes-fd-61-system-i...

Here are some more users with the same problem:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53759-Rampage-V-Extreme-won-t-boot-with-2-SLI-GeForce-Titan...
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?54976-Rampage-V-Extreme-X99-and-Thrustmaster-Warhog-HOTAS

I have seen more threads about this but I can't seem to find them now. The solution to my windows hanging seems to be disconnecting my USB 2.0 hub that goes to my Dell u2412m screen. After that the problem seems to have vanished. But I am wondering why this is happening and not every boot but just randomly. It always hangs on fd or 61 error codes when it hangs.

Really to me this board seems like it is still in the beta phase, there is so many bugs on glitches that it should not have been released. I am considering switching to EVGA since my friend has that board and it works just flawlessly even with the usb 2.0 hub on his screen. Could Asus please release a bios that fixes this? I have owned all Rampage boards since the II for x58 and I have never had so many problems like I have had with this one.

//AquaRelliux

[AquaRelliux]

Well how do you suggest soloving the problem then without switching board, I would really like to use my USB hubs.... And it crashes with every hub I have atm

[Raja]

You have two options if you wish to use the R5E:

1) Contact ASUS Support for your region and hope that they find it is not related to DC leaking into the board.

2) If it is a DC issue, use a USB spec compliant hub.

-Raja

[AquaRelliux]

Just to clearify what your telling me is this:

You want all manufacutres in the world to change their USB hubs to fit your motherboard? When clearly the problem is with the board itself, when it works perfectly with other X99 motherboards like the EVGA(I could test Gigabyte aswell). Do you understand how retarded that sounds?

Also my old Rampage III and Rampage IV never had this issue with the same USB hubs what does that tell you?

Lastly could you please explain to me how it is that works 70-80% of the time but fails the rest of the time to load Windows? How could a DC leak for a USB hub cause the Windows operating system to fail booting, not all the time?
I mean if it is leaking voltage then it does that constantly would that not cause the OS to fail booting all the time then? Please be technical with me because I am curious about this.

[Raja]

AquaRelliux wrote:
Just to clearify what your telling me is this:

You want all manufacutres in the world to change their USB hubs to fit your motherboard? When clearly the problem is with the board itself, when it works perfectly with other X99 motherboards like the EVGA(I could test Gigabyte aswell). Do you understand how retarded that sounds?

USB specs are not defined by ASUS, they are defined by USB-IF (whoever else) and Intel. If someone chooses not to adhere to spec, then you should be asking them why. The specs that stipulate there should be no external DC at the input side of any USB device have been present for a long time. This means vendors chose to ignore the spec through sheer ignorance or failed to read the specification requirements properly. Specs are specs and there for a reason, there is nothing retarded about that.

Info on some USB specs is available in white papers here should you wish to learn more about USB specifications:

http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/usb20_docs/

If DC is found to be the issue, you can link the device vendors and ask them why they chose not to adhere to spec. That is what I would do.

We had a somewhat similar case (from different source) here last year with display port. In that case a user purchased cheap DP cables that had not been built to spec. The cable included contact for pin 20 when DP cable spec clearly states pin 20 should not be connected. In that case, the cable caused 3.3V to leak back into the board which played havoc with POST as the BIOS chips are powered from 3.3V as well as many other onboard devices.

The fix for that user was fortunately down to him buying some more expensive and compliant cables. With USB, it's not as easy as that; even if one buys a cable that can lift rail power as some devices need board side power to handshake. Working around that requires an inline switch and that only works on devices that don't rely on 5V rail presence to keep their USB input active.

AquaRelliux wrote:

Also my old Rampage III and Rampage IV never had this issue with the same USB hubs what does that tell you?

It does not tell me anything other than those are older boards at this point - and seeing as specs have changed for compliance, there isn't anything one can reference other than they were made before the recent Intel revisions. You need to follow this post if you want to get to the bottom of whether it IS a DC issue or not or if you are techinically inclined, measure for DC with a DMM yourself. I do not have the Dell monitor here, nor do I cover support for EU:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?55569-Rampage-V-Windows-lockup-fault-codes-fd-and-61-solved...

AquaRelliux wrote:

Lastly could you please explain to me how it is that works 70-80% of the time but fails the rest of the time to load Windows? How could a DC leak for a USB hub cause the Windows operating system to fail booting, not all the time?
I mean if it is leaking voltage then it does that constantly would that not cause the OS to fail booting all the time then? Please be technical with me because I am curious about this.

Any onboard device that requires the 5V rail be pulled low/off to be reset when required, may malfunction if sufficient current is available when it should not be as this will cause it not to reset. These controllers may have a PWR good pin, which activates the device when the rail is high and reset or switch it off when the rail goes or is pulled low. To facilitate such procedures, rail power is removed to these devices or pulled low by onboard circuitry.These procedures may not complete if rail power switch off timing is breached (by presence of an external power source), or there is standby power present due to DC leaking back into the board. How that manifests may vary according to the state the device was in and if it required a reset at that point.

Again, the post I made above about contacting local support needs to be followed as the issue may not be related to DC. If that is the case then perhaps a fix can be found by whoever needs to fix it (ASUS or Dell).

On the ASUS side, you will need to hope someone has the same monitor in R&D or can get one (assuming there are no undocumented revisions also). As you've expressed a willingness and desire to get technical about things, it's probably best you do what you can on your side to isolate the cause before you contact ASUS Support - having a firm technical case will add weight to the request. There is far less onus in these cases when there is ambiguity in where the issue lies.

Good luck!

[RottenMutt]

AquaRelliux wrote:
Just to clearify what your telling me is this:

You want all manufacutres in the world to change their USB hubs to fit your motherboard? When clearly the problem is with the board itself, when it works perfectly with other X99 motherboards like the EVGA(I could test Gigabyte aswell). Do you understand how retarded that sounds?

My old dog didn't bite me when I kicked him but my new dog does, new dog must be defective! That argument don't fly.

Take the opportunity to get new monitors with usb3 hubs. Your dells are old and built to an outdated spec. My dell 27's with usb3 don't have your problem.

[simfreak101]

Its not the USB hub; I have the same problem and have 0 USB hubs plugged in. I only have a mouse and a keyboard, no other USB devices and still have that same issue.
There is something else with the BIOS software that needs to be fixed. This product was obviously not ready for release and they did so anyway because they had to as everyone else was rushing to market.
This will most likely be the last ASUS product i buy; I have had issues with Gigabyte in the past, but at least they had a engineer work with me, discover the problem and release a BIOS update.
This company when they run through all of their scripts simply tell you to RMA; which doesnt fix the problem.
IF you are going to use your users for QA, then you need to have the proper support staff ready to take their calls. All i have experianced are puppets with no knowledge of their own.

[Praz]

Hello

The USB specs were changed and those changes are implemented for Z97 and newer Intel platforms. Any motherboard following these changes are more susceptible to DC leakage from attached devices. Depending on the amount of leakage it may not be an issue at all, periodically cause problems or be a constant problem. The only solutions is to use devices that also adhere to these updated standards or move to a board that does not fully implement these newer specifications.

[AquaRelliux]

Maybe this should be informed to the rest of the world then? It is quite anyoing to spend thounds of dollars on hardware and then have a random problem that you could not figure out? It was just dumb luck I figured my problem out.

[Hopper64]

Wow. Interesting read. I have followed this thread and responded to the OP's first thread on this. I have had my machine at stock settings except for XMP for the memory for 9 days and I have had no issues. No Q codes at all. I didn't think this applied to me. I installed windows again fresh with default settings 9 days ago.

I just booted the machine with a 61 Q code and noted I have a USB 2.0 hub connected. I thought my CPU simply was not able to be overclocked. Now I am wondering if this USB issue was the problem all along. It is a fresh install of windows with no OC at all except a slight increased frequency for the memory with the XMP profile selected. I have taken the hub out of the equation and just watching it now. I wonder if I can now OC the machine??

[Hopper64]

BTW-I also have a Microsoft FF2 controller USB 2.0 connected. Might this be a problem? The hub I mentioned has no external power source. Would this explain the multiple passes in RealBench and LinX with OC, but it can't get into windows sometimes??