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ROG Scar 16-17-18 gaming laptops and Intel 13th and 14th gen stability issue

hexaae
Level 14

So... what about this Intel scandal recently emerged?

Intel has finally tracked down the problem making 13th- and 14th-gen CPUs crash | Ars Technica

If you're using a 13th- or 14th-generation CPU and you're not noticing any problems, the microcode update should prevent your processor from degrading. But if you're already noticing stability problems, Tom's Hardware reports that "the bug causes irreversible degradation of the impacted processors" and that the fix will not be able to reverse the damage that has already happened.

Intel says that an analysis of defective processors "confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor." In other words, the CPU is receiving too much power, which is degrading stability over time.

hexaae_0-1722111155987.png

 

Are ASUS+Intel planning BIOS updates to mitigate the issue?

// ASUS SCAR18 G834JY, i9-13980HX, 4090 laptop 256bit 16GB, 32GB 5600MHz RAM, 18" 16:10 2560x1600 240Hz G-Sync internal screen, external UWQHD 3440x1440 Mi 34" Monitor with Freesync, NVMe, 8BitDo Arcade Stick, EasySMX X10 controller, ROG Strix Carry mouse.
2,321 Views
74 REPLIES 74

hamzayesilmen
Level 9

Asus should release a test tool for this and take back the devices if there are problems.

hexaae
Level 14

This can be used as a test tool (make it run for a while), based on the Reddit report above:

y-cruncher - A Multi-Threaded Pi Program (numberworld.org) 

But I prefer waiting for the Intel fix / ASUS BIOS August update first...

// ASUS SCAR18 G834JY, i9-13980HX, 4090 laptop 256bit 16GB, 32GB 5600MHz RAM, 18" 16:10 2560x1600 240Hz G-Sync internal screen, external UWQHD 3440x1440 Mi 34" Monitor with Freesync, NVMe, 8BitDo Arcade Stick, EasySMX X10 controller, ROG Strix Carry mouse.

Test software like this will not benefit you legally in any way. You need software approved by Asus.

hexaae
Level 14

Well, sure... that's only a program to test by yourself if you're actually affected by CPU instability. Let's see in August what happens.

// ASUS SCAR18 G834JY, i9-13980HX, 4090 laptop 256bit 16GB, 32GB 5600MHz RAM, 18" 16:10 2560x1600 240Hz G-Sync internal screen, external UWQHD 3440x1440 Mi 34" Monitor with Freesync, NVMe, 8BitDo Arcade Stick, EasySMX X10 controller, ROG Strix Carry mouse.

MediaFlash
Level 8

I've had mine (Strix G18, i9-13980hx, 4080) since Feb 2023, and i've experienced maybe two blue screens at most, i'm still on Bios .317 and stopped updating because - others keep having software, display, performance, thermal (reportedly) issues after updating. Also for some reason, at some point this year, my notebook ceased to be able restart properly when initiated by a program (such as auto-rebooting after an installation), with windows update it's hit & miss (when it happens I have to hard shutdown and then manually reboot, which thankfully has worked so far).

Within a couple weeks of purchase, this notebook has exhibited an issue where the audio will very very noticeably glitch/hang/stutter (think an electrical grinding noise) at random intervals when playing a game or watching a video, it's most prominent when playing a game, and can vary from very breifly to up to a full-second of time. The last  year+ of trying various 'fixes' to resolve it has yielded zero results, and since I managed to get a unit with no dead pixels, from the start I refused to even contact Asus to send it in for troubleshooting (out of worry they would not handle the unit with care or 'find' damage that would've invalidated the warranty, as even at that point their spotty track record regarding warranty repairs and RMAs was well known, and has been further exposed by certain tech reviewers).   -   With this gen 13 & 14 fiasco now I wonder if my notebooks audio issue is a result of excessive voltage and/or oxidation. Which leads to...

Asus needs to, at minimum, start providing change notes with their Bios updates (I believe mentioned this here on this forum before to no avail). Initially users were asking Asus to remove Bios updates via Windows Update, I remember a few posts (myself included) specifically calling for Asus to make them 'Optional', as in, NOT auto-installed via Windows Update, and ONLY prompted through the MyAsus app, or the drivers page. Then at some point late last year or early this year Asus started labeling Bios updates as either 'Optional' or 'Critical' (this is shown on the driver/bios support page). Which is appreciated but it seems like Asus completely misinterpreted what users were asking for, as Windows Update STILL attempts to auto-install Bios updates, and without change notes the 'Optional' & 'Critical' label on the Bios support page is almost all but useless. Why are all but one 'Optional'? Why is the most recent (as of May 2024) Bios .328 'Critical'? I have Zero expectation that Asus will address either of those concerns, which is disheartening since at this point its 'Critical' for users to know what Bios changes are being made that can potentially/possibly lead to knowing if their notebooks will be able to reliably function in the future.

On another note does anyone know exactly how much (on these notebooks) voltage is being supplied to the Cpu by the regulator? The way these notebook mobo/Bios are designed does not allow the reporting of that metric, and even in HWINFO vcore is absent (the author of that program confirms as such and is unable to do anything about it since it's a oem/vendor-side design/choice).

@hamzayesilmen, what do you mean with "take back the devices?"

I think if you suffer from this issue, there's no fix, they have to refund right?

@hexaae, looks like a bios/update is not going to work 100%, according to some experts, there's no way to fix this issue 100%, even with a bios/update...

P.S

"any damage is permanent" 

https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/26/24206529/intel-13th-14th-gen-crashing-instability-cpu-voltage-q-a

hexaae
Level 14

Yes there's no way back for already damaged and worn CPUs because of faulty voltage requests... and first batch of CPUs were prone to oxidation (but I hope 🤞🏻 this was only for desktops since mobile cpus production should have started sometime later*).

My advice ATM is to avoid heavy tasks and demanding games till the new BIOS update with Intel fix. Then we will proceed with tests and class action/refund/replacements in case...

 

* from Intel site specs it seems desktop 13900K started Q4'22 and mobile i9-13980HX at Q1'23

Intel also separately confirmed speculation that there was an oxidation-related manufacturing issue with some early 13th-generation Core processors but that the problems were fixed in 2023 and weren't related to the crashes and instability that the microcode update is fixing.



// ASUS SCAR18 G834JY, i9-13980HX, 4090 laptop 256bit 16GB, 32GB 5600MHz RAM, 18" 16:10 2560x1600 240Hz G-Sync internal screen, external UWQHD 3440x1440 Mi 34" Monitor with Freesync, NVMe, 8BitDo Arcade Stick, EasySMX X10 controller, ROG Strix Carry mouse.

@hexaae, avoid... I have been playing demanding games since day1, bought the scar 4090 miniled model with the intent to play demanding games

Is what the laptop is meant for

Until know, no crash whatsoever, maybe I'm not affected, the only way to know is to use the tool you shared 

But, maybe is better to wait for the August update and then proceed to test?

What bothers me, there's no word from Asus about this specific situation yet...

First it was the rebar stutter, HDR crash, and now this issue... Unbelievable 

P.S

The reddit pic you shared the user confirmed the issue is present on Asus, razer and msi laptops

P.S 2

@SciGhost @yokehee 

They should recall the computers, update our devices, do tests and give us new devices. If necessary, they should talk to Intel and cover the damages from Intel with insurance and agreements.

We cannot be held responsible for errors that are hidden from us. I don't want to use this 13980HX processor.

When I bought it, I was getting 30K cinebench scores. 6 months later, I started getting 26K. complete Disgrace.