"If I enable HAGS, I get micro stutters

[Nirexis]

Good day,

First, to my system:

• Notebook: Asus Rog Strix Scar 16
• CPU: Intel Core i9 13980hx
• GPU: Geforce RTX 4080 Mobile
• RAM: Kingston Fury 32 gb 5600mhz Ram Module
• OS: Win 11

To my problem:

For months I have had problems with micro stutters, I have already tried everything possible:

• No Gsync / no Vsync
• Gsync / no Vsync
• Gsync + Vsync
• Each option with FPS Limit + without Limit
• FPS Limit in Nvidia driver, Ingame Engine or MSI Afterburner or Rivatuner.
• I have formatted the computer several times
• GeForce Experience installed / uninstalled
• Different power plan options
• Different graphics settings (from everything low to everything high)
• Different resolutions
• Game Mode on / off
• Fullscreen / Windowed / Borderless
• Current BIOS / older BIOS version
• Overlays of any apps On / Off
• The temperatures of my components are all within the normal range
• New RAM
• Other monitors with 240 hz
• All drivers for all components up to date / older drivers also tried
• Different mouse polling rate
• Different mouse
• Resizable Bar is automatically on, I don't think I can deactivate it anywhere either

Now after months I finally had the idea to deactivate HAGS (Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling) and I couldn't believe my eyes. Everything runs incredibly smooth and the micro stutters are gone.

The big problem now is that you have to have HAGS activated to activate Frame Generation... In some games, not even Dlss 2.0 works. Does anyone know the problem and could solve it? Games like Immortals of Avenuen are hardly playable without Dlss... Unfortunately, you also have to restart the PC when changing the HAGS setting, which would be extremely annoying... especially since more and more games with Dlss 3.0 are coming out.

[Nirexis]

I tested an external monitor with DP 1.4 and 180hz with Gsync and the same Vsync failure problem occurs there. In another forum someone noticed that the 2 SSDs that are installed in my system are running in RAID 0, i.e. merged into one SSD. According to his statement, this is wrong and can also cause stuttering. I also experience stuttering in DirectX 12 games.

[hexaae]

I'm not expert with RAID configs... how to check this? From BIOS I see the 2 SSD NVMe are listed under "non-RAID" drives... Thank you for testing on an external G-Sync monitor, so the internal display is not the culprit.

(If it's just an NVidia driver problem--how is it possible that it hasn't been fixed yet? A Windows 11 23H2 issue, like the known glitch with YouTube videos?)

EDIT: tested a few old games and emulators with visible nonsense stutterings (things that even a 980m can easily play smoothly), forcing 60fps cap and indeed they run silky smooth this way as I remember on my other GL703GS with 1070 8GB + G-Sync! Maybe is just G-Sync NVidia driver totally broken for 4090 laptop GPUs (yet???).

And how can this internal display be G-Sync certified, when it doesn't even sync in UFO Ghosting test?
A lot of questions come to my mind.

[hexaae]

... or maybe is just a latency issue problem:

My 2nd SSD NVMe is a good WD Black SN850X 2TB. I'm not interested in RAID. Maybe "Intel RST VMD Controller A77F" (with VMD enabled in the BIOS) is the culprit? Someone uninstalled this driver and on reboot from the BIOS set VMD OFF for testing (at this point the OS should automatically install Microsoft NVMe generic drivers on next boot)?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1309,40
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 14,193746

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 1232,20
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 5,449850

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 192,678793
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Runtime framework driver modalità kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,000110
Driver with highest ISR total time: Wdf01000.sys - Runtime framework driver modalità kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,000110

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 2202
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-1000 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-2000 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-4000 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 5237,539893
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: Wdf01000.sys - Runtime framework driver modalità kernel, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,015481
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: nvlddmkm.sys - NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 555.85 , NVIDIA Corporation

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,041252

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 114826
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-10000 µs): 414
DPC count (execution time 1000-2000 µs): 2
DPC count (execution time 2000-4000 µs): 1
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 1

[hexaae]

Exactly. Has nothing to do with performane, fps, or GPU/CPU balancing. Also non-demanding old games and even 2D scrolling old games do (micro)stutter, as well as UFO Ghosting!

To recap: we excluded the display panel with the external G-Sync monitor test (stuttering still present)... and without Armoury Crate there is no difference, so at this point the only remaining things probably are:

1. constant Latency issues (Intel VMD??? Better to switch to normal NVMe mode and generic Microsoft drivers?)

2. NVidia drivers

[Nirexis]

I'm currently finishing high school and have my exams in 5 weeks. I need my laptop for that, so I won't reinstall Windows etc. for now. That's too uncertain for me. In 5 weeks I will test it with the SSD and do a fresh Windows installation.

[Nirexis]

You could still try the latest Asus-licensed Nvidia driver from the Asus website. according to asus, this works 

[hexaae]

Already tried, nothing changes. Still (micro)stuttering and UFO Ghosting fails at 240Hz.

[Nirexis]

oh woooow. 

Immortals of Avenuem was running really badly for me. I was made aware in another forum that it could be due to the ECores. I then disabled them in the Amory Create software and disabled and behold, the game runs smoothly. I haven't tested other games yet.

[hexaae]

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@Nirexis  ha scritto:

oh woooow. 

Immortals of Avenuem was running really badly for me. I was made aware in another forum that it could be due to the ECores. I then disabled them in the Amory Create software and disabled and behold, the game runs smoothly. I haven't tested other games yet.

---

That's another story.
Some games are known having issues with the most recent CPUs... In that case you should try generic workarounds like this: Too many cores crash FIX :: Lost Planet 2 Discussioni generali (steamcommunity.com) which is a fake .dll just limiting the CPU cores in use by the game. This makes many old games work fine even on modern 32 cores with E-cores of course. I'm not sure about the claimed DX9-11 support excluding DX12 (?). But as a general rule just "hiding" those strange E-cores for the exe could solve any problem.

You can also try Steam Guides like this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639283716

Back in topic...

Old games, MAME emulator etc. still stutter even with E-cores disabled unfortunately: they are not the cause of bad frame pacing/sync issues....

Try also the LatencyMon tool Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks

[Nirexis]

is this normal ?