GL502VS Discharging while Plugged-in

[ido505]

Hi,

I have got the new GL502VS with the 1070 gtx in it.
After reading a few topics in other forums I saw that some people complains about the battery - saying that it keeps discharging while connected to the charger.
Then, I noticed that it happens for me too.
It's not a big deal, but around 8% in an hour of playing Mafia 3.

Do you guys aware to this problem?
Is there anyway to fix it?

Thanks.

MODERATOR NOTE. Please see this post from June:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88742-GL502VS-Discharging-while-Plugged-in&p=658857&viewfu...

[zsherman51590]

Macra wrote:
Hello all. Just wondering if the 303 bios fixed the battery drain issue for those with the I7 version of the*GL502VS? I'm still seeing some battery drain on mine while under load and not undervolted.

just wondering do you have the gl502vsk with the i7 7700hq cause if you do i do as well and i have bios 303 and the discharging is still happening with that

[carlotti]

zsherman51590 wrote:
just wondering do you have the gl502vsk with the i7 7700hq cause if you do i do as well and i have bios 303 and the discharging is still happening with that

Yes, it is still happening. Ghost recon is a great game to test it on. As long as your laptop isnt throttling due to high heat, the game runs beautifully but the battery will drain.

[Macra]

Anyone have anymore info on the issue? I have the I7 version of the GL502VS with about 1 month left on my warranty. The battery drain happens even with undervolting, newest BIOs and larger power brick. Currently I am at 83% battery while playing Dead by Daylight. Has every just decided to bite the bullet and have ASUS done nothing to help the situation? I'm also wondering if anyone has joined together for compensation from ASUS in the form of a class action lawsuit or such?

[mar_ga]

cl-Albert wrote:
fyi.

Please confirm on your end if necessary, but showing on my end the GL502VS-DS71 comes with the 7th gen. i7-7700HQ which unfortunately, ASUS HQ has not recognized to have the battery draining issue and is not providing our local office more options to resolve those cases compared to the GL502VS model with 6th gen. Intel cpu which we've heard with the problem with more.

Want to make sure you were running the latest bios though and the battery charge was dropping below 90% while plugged in since it's normal if the battery charge drops to 90%, but not normal that it drops lower.

Anyway, check with your local ASUS support if necessary, but expecting they may only be able to offer the RMA option right now for this GL502VS model with Intel 7th gen. cpu (internally known in ASUS as GL502VSK).
Customers with the GL502VS 6th gen. cpu and battery draining issues should get more options when discussing with their local ASUS support.

If you do decide to RMA, be sure to mention the battery drain issue too and how to catch it so repair can hopefully check it and confirm they don't see the problem after repairs are completed or report to HQ if they aren't able to fix it.

Thanks.

With full respect. But i smell only lies here.
As u noticed battery drain is also VSK users problem and it's not the first person who informing You (ASUS) about it. Ther's pleny complains about it (VSK) model too.

You said : ASUS HQ has not recognized to VSK have the battery draining issue - i can only say WT* ? Common user is able to notice battery drain issue during simple playing some games and Your HQ can't recognize it ? REALLLY ?! ASUS PLEASE. ( apart from the fact that a lot of people inform you about it )

How come You said ASUS HQ didnt recognize it ,when my local ASUS said to me that ASUS HQ knows the problem and working on a solution (?!)

It's all mess. One company , one problem - and every employee has it's own " LEGIT " information about it....
I never saw such a mess with support.

One more thing You said : ..should get more options when discussing with their local ASUS support... - what's the options ? Could You share them with Us ?
What can be a option when You dont have fix for it ? Is there possibility to get a full refund ? or replace to another model ?

[cl-Albert]

mar_ga wrote:
With full respect. But i smell only lies here.
As u noticed battery drain is also VSK users problem and it's not the first person who informing You (ASUS) about it. Ther's pleny complains about it (VSK) model too.

Thanks for your post and apologize for any misunderstanding.

Just so everyone knows, I work for the ASUS U.S. office and not ASUS HQ, so cannot speak for other regions and may not always know all HQ's plans which is why I suggest checking with your local ASUS support too if you cannot get any updates from HQ.
I believe some of the misunderstanding is because the solutions/options mentioned so far have been for the GL502VS with 6th gen. cpu and not the GL502VS with 7th gen. cpu (GL502VSK), so you don't want to treat both models in the same way and should clarify this when it's necessary.

Bahz from HQ confirmed this on 09-25-2017 at post #624 as below.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88742-GL502VS-Discharging-while-Plugged-in/page63

Bahz wrote:
Just for clarification as Cl-Albert brought to my attention that I misread the message from Jereyo. This thread is for GL502VS only, GL502VSK is unrelated to any information posted in this thread. We have no confirmed reports that shows GL502VSK has the same discharging issue as reported for GL502VS.

mar_ga wrote:

You said : ASUS HQ has not recognized to VSK have the battery draining issue - i can only say WT* ? Common user is able to notice battery drain issue during simple playing some games and Your HQ can't recognize it ? REALLLY ?! ASUS PLEASE. ( apart from the fact that a lot of people inform you about it )

How come You said ASUS HQ didnt recognize it ,when my local ASUS said to me that ASUS HQ knows the problem and working on a solution (?!)

It's all mess. One company , one problem - and every employee has it's own " LEGIT " information about it....
I never saw such a mess with support.

You probably want to discuss with HQ or your local support since I can't speak for your region, but yes, my understanding is that if you tell them you have the GL502VS with 6th gen cpu and the battery drain problem, they should be able to make some arrangements to your satisfaction.

If you tell them you have the GL502VS with 7th gen . cpu (GL502VSK) with battery drain problem, they will probably tell the issue has not been confirmed on the GL502VSK by HQ, so will need to investigate with you further.
If necessary, please check with them and let us know if you hear anything differently and don't forget to mention you have the GL502VS with 7th gen. cpu or GL502VSK!

mar_ga wrote:

One more thing You said : ..should get more options when discussing with their local ASUS support... - what's the options ? Could You share them with Us ?
What can be a option when You dont have fix for it ? Is there possibility to get a full refund ? or replace to another model ?

Sorry, don't want to say what arrangements we have in the U.S. region in case other regions don't have the same arrangements, but if you don't like what you hear from your local ASUS support for the GL502VS with 6th gen. cpu, suggest discussing with HQ too who may be able to help (U.S. and Canadian customers may want to contact me too).
There isn't any hardware fix currently for the GL502VS 6th gen. cpu to solve the battery draining issue that I am aware of though, so other arrangements need to be made.

With the GL502VS with 7th gen. cpu, don't expect HQ will be able to provide as much assistance, but probably doesn't hurt to ask or check.
Hope this helps.
Thanks.

[Ymzuki]

mar_ga wrote:
It's very nice from You that You working on solution to help others too.
But its not the point.

I bought my laptop to use it's full performance. It's no sense to undervolt laptop components. By the way messing around with components voltage can void your warranty.

MasterC said to me that ASUS working on a solution and SOON they will annunce it publicly. It was week ago.
We will see..........


Btw. recently i readed about new Surface Book 2 with GTX 1060 - it has exactly the same problem - it discharge while plugged in.
It look like more companies saves on AC adapters/components ...Or they underestimated new GTXs power consumption
src : https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/21/surface-book-2-battery-charging-gaming-issues/

Shame.

Keep on dreaming, I'm like 1 year on this thread, so far no solutions were given by ASUS, just 2 BIOS updates with no improvements.

xeromist wrote:
Bahz reported back in June that they would not be able to do a complete motherboard fix for everyone. Please see his post here:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88742-GL502VS-Discharging-while-Plugged-in&p=658857&viewfu...

What are the chances of replacing my unit GL502VS 180w, bought 1 year ago, changed countries since then ( both in EU ) replaced the thermal paste,replaced and drilled the bottom of the laptop for more air intake, didn't touch the hardware at all. You think my unit can be replaced in its current state with another ROG laptop of similar specs that has no draining battery or performance problems?

[Dwander39]

Bill@ASUS wrote:
Hello ido505
I've passed this issue to our related personnel
I'l reply as soon as I have more information on this matter
Thank you for your inquiry 🙂

I am having the same problem. *Was there a solution found? *This evening for example, I was playing a game starting full charge plugged in and my battery level dropped to 92% over the course of 45 mins. *I have spoken to the Asus support and they want to RMA my unit. *Based on this thread and other research, this has not been a solution. *I believe this unit was shipped before proper quality control was performed on this product. *Had this CQ *been done, I can't believe this would have been shipped with this obviously known issue. *

[Falkentyne]

Just needed to clarify a few things.

First, the issue is not with the battery circuit nor what the battery or connector is capable of.
It's more of how "Hybrid Power", or what was once called "NOS" by MSI, was designed.
I'm not sure which company was the first to use this system; it may have been MSI, but now almost everyone is doing it even though this is no longer necessary in higher end gaming laptops.

Originally, when 180W PSU's first came out, the PSU's were simply not powerful enough for the laptops at the time, and many of these PSU's were substandard and known to die, even with the hybrid power system. But this system was designed to allow the AC and Battery to draw power together, so the system could use the full amount of power, even though the 180W PSU was woefully inadequate. It did work and some systems were able to draw 210W of power like this, but of course, at the cost of high battery drain.

PSUs are now much more reliable than before, like the Delta 230W and 330W series, and there is even a 780W monster you can buy from Eurocomm. However many companies, like Razer, MSI, Dell (Alienware), Gigabyte, Asus, etc, are still using this hybrid power system on higher end hardware.

The reason why Bios updates are not fixing the issue is because the Bios has no control over this.
The Embedded Controller (EC) firmware is what controls hybrid power draw, as well as the absolute draw limits.

Basically, the reason for hybrid power existing is the exact same reason why if you disconnect the battery, you get slower performance.

Hybrid power 'starts' at a certain amount of power draw. On the 180W system, it could be at 120W, or 130W or 140W. This is where the battery starts being used. It starts off so slowly, it could be 1% drain in 1 hour. But goes up as more power is used by the system. There is an absolute power cap, however on systems with both TDP locked videocards (115W GTX 1070) and TDP locked CPU's (6700HQ, 7700HQ have 45W sustained power limits, and can only go up as high as 62W for a short amount of time, before power limit flags force them back to 45W; undervolting these processors can keep them under 45W at the highest loads), you will never reach the absolute cap, only just get high battery drain.

When the battery is lower than 30% (this value can vary on manufacturer), hybrid power gets disabled, so the battery can charge. This means that the system will throttle if you exceed the cutoff where hybrid power would start getting used. This is the exact same reason why unplugging the battery causes the same performance as low battery.

For newer systems (and not the light and thin notebooks, but true desktop replacements) with reiiable PSU's, there is no reason for this system to still exist. The 230W Delta PSU, for example, is capable of drawing 270W from the wall and 240W to the system (power efficiency levels means some power is lost in all PSU's), sustained, without blowing up on you, although you don't want to constantly overdraw the PSU; you're better off just buying a bigger one.

This issue could be addressed by Asus in an EC firmware update, however there has been some huge sticking points with "unlocked' EC firmwares in the past, which may have been caused by a combination of flaky weak PSU's and substandard hardware. So now almost everything is locked down.

Dell/Alienware I believe use a 'sense' middle pin to detect the amp rating for the PSU, thus allowing more power draw if the PSU is capable of it, so upgrading to a higher end PSU will work on some models. This is not a golden solution as there have been problems with those fragile pins breaking, causing serious issues.

Unlocked EC firmwares with unlocked Bioses are usually available from OEM /ODM partners that are allowed to distribute "Prema" Bioses. But only a few resellers do, and never the main ODM or manufacturer themselves. The MSI 16L1 barebones and some of the Sager/Clevo units with Prema partners all have modifications to remove all traces of hybrid power battery drain and throttling; the systems will draw as much power as requested.

Some manufacturers will offer different sized PSU's with different video card configurations (e.g. GTX 1060, GTX 1070=230W, GTX 1080=330W), but will use the exact same base mainboard and the exact same EC firmware and Bios across all models. MSI is known to do this on a few of their product ranges. However the good old hybrid battery drain system is still in use.

Even more problems start occuring with the unlocked processors that are not limited to 45W TDP. The 6820HK and 7820HK CPU's are "K" series CPU's that failed QA for making it into desktop LGA bins, so they are put in BGA bins, which are lower quality (the ones which even failed these are labeled as HQ processors), and the TDP is reduced from 91W to 45W. Being unlocked, unlike the 7700HQ and 6700HQ, they respond similiarly to desktop processors, responding to Package Power Limit (PL1/PL2) increases and current limit (ICCMax). With these processors, if you get a good enough sample, you may be able to push 90-100W through them if you can keep it cool (below #Prochot), but then, with the hybrid power system and AC power caps in place, you may run into the absolute AC power limit, causing forced (PECI) throttling from the EC firmware.

Most users won't run into this, except on some systems with extremely strict limits, but for those with TDP Modded video cards (a Pascal Bios Editor exists, but requires a SPI programmer) and overclocking unlocked processors, you can run into it.

Ok so how does a system which use the exact same Bios and EC firmware and same mainboard, manage to cap power levels differently, and why can't just buying a 330W on a 230W system solve your problems (besides Dell brands?)

Simple: Video card detection. EC firmware detects the videocard and then sets the max AC power limit, and the hybrid power cutoff points.

On some MSI models, this can actually be accessed by a EC RAM flag in RW Everything, allowing you to 'remove' the hybrid and AC power, by spoofing the power profile (e.g. 230W into 330W, and 330W into 460W, by changing the hexadecimal ID). This would only work for systems that have configurations like this.

Anyway, Asus could easily remove the hybrid power system from their 230W models with an EC update, assuming the 230W PSU were capable of handling 220-230W power. I could see how there could be issues with the 180W systems (mainly, reliabilllty of these PSU's; MSI models first carrying these PSU's had some of the PSU's die after awhile), but the companies seem very hesitant on removing the hybrid power system, and it isn't clear why.

[Krejak]

That's indeed interesting but maybe you missed what I wrote. I already have the 230W adapter, and when pushing the laptop to full power it DOESN'T drain from battery but it charges it. I've misured the consumption at full power it was 200-210 W. The problem I've found is within certain circumstances where high FPS and correspondingly high GPU clock. That's not hybrid, that's something wrong, cause it's not needed in that system with 230w adapter. At full load it doesn't drain anything, as Asus NB team could see too.

Falkentyne wrote:
Just needed to clarify a few things.

First, the issue is not with the battery circuit nor what the battery or connector is capable of.
It's more of how "Hybrid Power", or what was once called "NOS" by MSI, was designed.
I'm not sure which company was the first to use this system; it may have been MSI, but now almost everyone is doing it even though this is no longer necessary in higher end gaming laptops.

Originally, when 180W PSU's first came out, the PSU's were simply not powerful enough for the laptops at the time, and many of these PSU's were substandard and known to die, even with the hybrid power system. But this system was designed to allow the AC and Battery to draw power together, so the system could use the full amount of power, even though the 180W PSU was woefully inadequate. It did work and some systems were able to draw 210W of power like this, but of course, at the cost of high battery drain.

PSUs are now much more reliable than before, like the Delta 230W and 330W series, and there is even a 780W monster you can buy from Eurocomm. However many companies, like Razer, MSI, Dell (Alienware), Gigabyte, Asus, etc, are still using this hybrid power system on higher end hardware.

The reason why Bios updates are not fixing the issue is because the Bios has no control over this.
The Embedded Controller (EC) firmware is what controls hybrid power draw, as well as the absolute draw limits.

Basically, the reason for hybrid power existing is the exact same reason why if you disconnect the battery, you get slower performance.

Hybrid power 'starts' at a certain amount of power draw. On the 180W system, it could be at 120W, or 130W or 140W. This is where the battery starts being used. It starts off so slowly, it could be 1% drain in 1 hour. But goes up as more power is used by the system. There is an absolute power cap, however on systems with both TDP locked videocards (115W GTX 1070) and TDP locked CPU's (6700HQ, 7700HQ have 45W sustained power limits, and can only go up as high as 62W for a short amount of time, before power limit flags force them back to 45W; undervolting these processors can keep them under 45W at the highest loads), you will never reach the absolute cap, only just get high battery drain.

When the battery is lower than 30% (this value can vary on manufacturer), hybrid power gets disabled, so the battery can charge. This means that the system will throttle if you exceed the cutoff where hybrid power would start getting used. This is the exact same reason why unplugging the battery causes the same performance as low battery.

For newer systems (and not the light and thin notebooks, but true desktop replacements) with reiiable PSU's, there is no reason for this system to still exist. The 230W Delta PSU, for example, is capable of drawing 270W from the wall and 240W to the system (power efficiency levels means some power is lost in all PSU's), sustained, without blowing up on you, although you don't want to constantly overdraw the PSU; you're better off just buying a bigger one.

This issue could be addressed by Asus in an EC firmware update, however there has been some huge sticking points with "unlocked' EC firmwares in the past, which may have been caused by a combination of flaky weak PSU's and substandard hardware. So now almost everything is locked down.

Dell/Alienware I believe use a 'sense' middle pin to detect the amp rating for the PSU, thus allowing more power draw if the PSU is capable of it, so upgrading to a higher end PSU will work on some models. This is not a golden solution as there have been problems with those fragile pins breaking, causing serious issues.

Unlocked EC firmwares with unlocked Bioses are usually available from OEM /ODM partners that are allowed to distribute "Prema" Bioses. But only a few resellers do, and never the main ODM or manufacturer themselves. The MSI 16L1 barebones and some of the Sager/Clevo units with Prema partners all have modifications to remove all traces of hybrid power battery drain and throttling; the systems will draw as much power as requested.

Some manufacturers will offer different sized PSU's with different video card configurations (e.g. GTX 1060, GTX 1070=230W, GTX 1080=330W), but will use the exact same base mainboard and the exact same EC firmware and Bios across all models. MSI is known to do this on a few of their product ranges. However the good old hybrid battery drain system is still in use.

Even more problems start occuring with the unlocked processors that are not limited to 45W TDP. The 6820HK and 7820HK CPU's are "K" series CPU's that failed QA for making it into desktop LGA bins, so they are put in BGA bins, which are lower quality (the ones which even failed these are labeled as HQ processors), and the TDP is reduced from 91W to 45W. Being unlocked, unlike the 7700HQ and 6700HQ, they respond similiarly to desktop processors, responding to Package Power Limit (PL1/PL2) increases and current limit (ICCMax). With these processors, if you get a good enough sample, you may be able to push 90-100W through them if you can keep it cool (below #Prochot), but then, with the hybrid power system and AC power caps in place, you may run into the absolute AC power limit, causing forced (PECI) throttling from the EC firmware.

Most users won't run into this, except on some systems with extremely strict limits, but for those with TDP Modded video cards (a Pascal Bios Editor exists, but requires a SPI programmer) and overclocking unlocked processors, you can run into it.

Ok so how does a system which use the exact same Bios and EC firmware and same mainboard, manage to cap power levels differently, and why can't just buying a 330W on a 230W system solve your problems (besides Dell brands?)

Simple: Video card detection. EC firmware detects the videocard and then sets the max AC power limit, and the hybrid power cutoff points.

On some MSI models, this can actually be accessed by a EC RAM flag in RW Everything, allowing you to 'remove' the hybrid and AC power, by spoofing the power profile (e.g. 230W into 330W, and 330W into 460W, by changing the hexadecimal ID). This would only work for systems that have configurations like this.

Anyway, Asus could easily remove the hybrid power system from their 230W models with an EC update, assuming the 230W PSU were capable of handling 220-230W power. I could see how there could be issues with the 180W systems (mainly, reliabilllty of these PSU's; MSI models first carrying these PSU's had some of the PSU's die after awhile), but the companies seem very hesitant on removing the hybrid power system, and it isn't clear why.

[Falkentyne]

Krejak wrote:
That's indeed interesting but maybe you missed what I wrote. I already have the 230W adapter, and when pushing the laptop to full power it DOESN'T drain from battery but it charges it. I've misured the consumption at full power it was 200-210 W. The problem I've found is within certain circumstances where high FPS and correspondingly high GPU clock. That's not hybrid, that's something wrong, cause it's not needed in that system with 230w adapter. At full load it doesn't drain anything, as Asus NB team could see too.

Krejak, my post wasn't directed at you, sorry. I was trying to explain what the reason was for the hybrid drain and why bios updates won't fix it. An EC update would completely fix it for all of the 230W systems, while the safety and reliability of the 180W PSU's is still uncertain. If the 180W PSU's were allowed to draw max power with no battery drain and they started overheating and some dying, that would just create another, longer rage thread, meaning the only fix for 180W systems is sending out 230W PSU's to everyone and then removing the hybrid battery system after. But once again I don't know the quality of the Asus 180W units. The MSI ones from that time were substandard.