Overclocking the i7-4710HQ on a G751JY and issues

[Edweird]

WARNING! Image Heavy!

Hey, everyone.

I recently purchased this beauty of a machine - a G751JY. (i7-4710HQ, GTX980M, 8GB DDR3L, BIOS 205)
After rummaging around the forums and with you guys' help (thanks to ASUS Support as well) I have managed (for now) to get some extra juice out of the already almost unnecessarily powerful 980M using GPU Tweak for Graphics Cards with the 344.75 drivers.

Yay! This is just the +135Hz standard overclock and the memory running at 6000MHz effective. I haven't seen if it would go up but from what I've seen I should be able to hit 6400MHz no problem.



So that being done, I think it's appropriate to talk about the CPU...
Especially considering that I can imagine a fair few circumstances where the CPU would hold down this beastly GPU.

So, what does HWINFO86 tell my uneducated mind about this processor:



Okay, so I did some basic research and from I understand, this information tells us that this CPU can take 2 extra frequency multipliers - so technically, I should be able to get a free 200MHz overclock! That is significant on a mobile machine with the thermal headroom and the G751 is definitely that.

Okay, so I loaded up Intel Extreme Tuning Utility and noticed that the clock multiplier can be pulled up but only by a factor of 1...huh. Okay so our new multis are 36-35-34-34 and a cache multiplier of 36. (Worth noting that I'm a complete noob when it comes to overclocking.)

So I applied the settings and ran a benchmark to see what would happen.



Odd... the CPU hit 3.4GHz only once for a split second. I determined that, obviously, XTU stresses all 4 cores for this benchmark.
Looking down we can see something more odd - the CPU is being starved for current by XTU! I guess this is how XTU stresses the chip? I truly have no clue. However, my non-OC brain thinks that XTU does this to determine how effective the CPU is at blasting calculations when deprived of "food", which WOULD explain the lower clocks.

Moving on - I loaded up ThrottleStop because of its simple and effective threaded benchmark so that I could test individual cores.



This time, there is no throttling of any kind. We see that a single threaded test mostly works the CPU to about 3.4GHz, rarely peaking to 3.5GHz. XTU reports only 1 core being active. This is very odd. So we've set the multiplier to 36 for 1 core, the CPU has enough current but it barely makes 3.5GHz? Throughout my testing I have never seen this CPU go above 3.5GHz.

Next, 2 threads.



Hmm...same results. The CPU peaked at just over 3.5GHz - but this is expected as our 2-core multiplier is set to 35. But it rarely reached that speed. XTU jumped between 1 and 2 cores.

A solid 3.4GHz for 4 threads for a multiplier of 34 for 4 cores active.



Okay, so let's look at the benchmark results.
Again, we can see here that XTU starves the CPU of current and the CPU struggles to keep up at 3.1GHz.



The result:



No idea how this stacks up.

Now with the tweaked multipliers:



Throttling again, but this time it's a steady 3.3GHz.

Results:



...What? Same results? What's happening?

This is where I am stuck. First, as I understand it, the CPU should be able to do 3.7GHz. Second, it doesn't even do 3.6GHz through XTU. This is where I'm hoping some OC savvy people will jump in. Do I need to tweak something else to get an actual overclock out of this CPU? Could it be that ASUS has changed how the CPU behaves and limited the multipliers through the 205 BIOS release? And I'm not liking the dips on that blue curve down in the left corner...

Any and all feedback on the process and any discussion is welcomed and encouraged!

[Boom_austin]

i have something to add in here if it hasnt already been said. the gpu and cpu seem to be either near each other or thermally connected because if you run just a cpu benchmark your temps will be in the 80s on stock clocks. buy you will also see the gpu temp rise when its doing nothing. so the best way to see your max temps is run somethin that will stress both gpu and gpu.

as for mine i was having overheating issues (cpu would thermal throttle 93c temps) and i aint having none of that. so what i did first was i underclocked my cpu. core to -90 and cache to -100. then i went into the clocks and when 3 cores are being used and when 4 are. i lowered the multiplier on the 2 of those by one and boom hugeeee help with my thermal maxs i think the highest i ever saw was an 89c but i was also covering the rear vents some to really get those temps up to see if it could cool itself off liek it couldnt before. and successs no thermal throttle and much better and in my opinion safer temps 🙂

[joshindaphils]

Boom_austin wrote:
i have something to add in here if it hasnt already been said. the gpu and cpu seem to be either near each other or thermally connected because if you run just a cpu benchmark your temps will be in the 80s on stock clocks. buy you will also see the gpu temp rise when its doing nothing. so the best way to see your max temps is run somethin that will stress both gpu and gpu.

as for mine i was having overheating issues (cpu would thermal throttle 93c temps) and i aint having none of that. so what i did first was i underclocked my cpu. core to -90 and cache to -100. then i went into the clocks and when 3 cores are being used and when 4 are. i lowered the multiplier on the 2 of those by one and boom hugeeee help with my thermal maxs i think the highest i ever saw was an 89c but i was also covering the rear vents some to really get those temps up to see if it could cool itself off liek it couldnt before. and successs no thermal throttle and much better and in my opinion safer temps 🙂

They are most definitaly thermally connected. In fact the CPU temp will follow GPU temps very closly on low CPU load, and will always be higher than the GPU temp on moderate to high loads... Of the 6 heatpipes used for cooling 5 of them are used to cool the GPU, 2 of those shared with the CPU.

You can see pics of the heatpipe asymbly over here (scroll down aways): https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?59354-G751JY-Disassembly-Pics

[hmscott]

Edweird, getting closer to understanding what is going on?

The CPU is rarely single-threaded, so 3.6 isn't going to be seen often, or long if the power window is low at 8 seconds. But, the 2 core, 3 core, and 4 core numbers will be seen more often and also run longer with the Window extended, as you saw.

It is more than 3% real improvement, that benchmark just didn't show it, find one that will.

From 3.2ghz to 3.4ghz there is about a 6% improvement possible, but that can be the difference between higher scores in things that matter. There have been rendering tests that gave a 10% improvement, so if you are turning over 1 extra job a day due to the improvement, it is worth it to some.

And, it doesn't cost anything.

It isn't an OC like you would do on a desktop computer, but it is the best you can have on the laptop, so why not do it?

Getting a handle on what is going on on your laptop is worth the effort alone. 🙂

[BigDRim]

So set max multipliers for cache and all cores won't be harmful?

[hmscott]

BigDRim wrote:
So set max multipliers for cache and all cores won't be harmful?

BigDRim, it will work fine. Unless you run batch jobs, rendering, or some other long running 100% CPU program that also heats up the GPU, you don't need to worry about it.

If you run those programs, watch the temperatures for Thermal Throttling with hwinfo64.

If you aren't Thermal Throttling there is no reason to decrease the multipliers from Maximum for 3/4 cores at a time, and you can keep all 4 cores at a time setting to maximum.

CPU cache can always run at maximum.

[BigDRim]

Ok thanks!

[ArthurV]

Has anyone tried to overclock the i7-4860HQ which is G751JY-DH72X equipped with?

[NitroX]

ArthurV wrote:
Has anyone tried to overclock the i7-4860HQ which is G751JY-DH72X equipped with?

I saw people underclocking the i7-4860 due to thermal issues but I did not see anyone eager to go for an overclock to the CPU. And why the hassle ? Its not like the CPU can't handle anything that you throw at it at the moment. My i7-4710 works damn well with a downclock to x33/x33/x32/x32 and I can't notice any drop in performance. On the other hand, I did notice a great improvement in temperature as it stays in mid 70s and peaks only at 80C.

Overclocking the CPU is quite a risky one in my opinion. You should do many tests in order to see how far does the temperature go with the default clocks. Check the average and maximum in games and apps that are demanding high CPU usage. After that, if the temps are okay with the default settings, you could try to go for a CPU Overclock. But, the CPU can't be overclocked easily as Intel XTU doesn't allow you to change the BUS Frequency from 100Mhz. At least this is what I have heard. The only thing that you can do with Intel XTU is to raise the clocks at much as you can, but that will win you a maximum of +100 or +200Mhz from default clocks. This means that it might be necessary to use other software, potentially dangerous or you might even be forced to make some BIOS changes in order to be able to OC the CPU even further.

All in all, I consider it a time consuming operation, dangerous, and with possible poor results.

[hmscott]

NitroX wrote:
I saw people underclocking the i7-4860 due to thermal issues but I did not see anyone eager to go for an overclock to the CPU. And why the hassle ? Its not like the CPU can't handle anything that you throw at it at the moment. My i7-4710 works damn well with a downclock to x33/x33/x32/x32 and I can't notice any drop in performance. On the other hand, I did notice a great improvement in temperature as it stays in mid 70s and peaks only at 80C.

Overclocking the CPU is quite a risky one in my opinion. You should do many tests in order to see how far does the temperature go with the default clocks. Check the average and maximum in games and apps that are demanding high CPU usage. After that, if the temps are okay with the default settings, you could try to go for a CPU Overclock. But, the CPU can't be overclocked easily as Intel XTU doesn't allow you to change the BUS Frequency from 100Mhz. At least this is what I have heard. The only thing that you can do with Intel XTU is to raise the clocks at much as you can, but that will win you a maximum of +100 or +200Mhz from default clocks. This means that it might be necessary to use other software, potentially dangerous or you might even be forced to make some BIOS changes in order to be able to OC the CPU even further.

All in all, I consider it a time consuming operation, dangerous, and with possible poor results.

NitroX, you have a number of misunderstandings going on in regards to XTU and "OC'ing" for the mobile Haswell.

There is no danger, first of all. There is really no OC involved - at least not what you are trying to express.

XTU only lets you unlock the multipliers to run at maximum. Intel ships the CPU slightly de-tuned, reduced multipliers, because they can't count on the best cooling being available in every installation.

The G750/G751 has great cooling so Intel provides their Exterme Tuning Utility - XTU - to allow users to increase the multipliers to their design maximums. This isn't overclocking, this is configuring the CPU to use the intended performance in an environment that supports it.

It isn't time consuming, you install the Intel XTU app, open it up to the Controls tab, and slide the multiplier slider up to the maximum setting. You don't play with the clock settings, only the multiplier.

It takes 10 minutes to install, set the settings, Apply them, Save them to a Profile that will load each time the system starts. There is nothing else to do to increase the performance.

My i7-4700HQ lets me increase the multipliers for all 4 cores, and the CPU cache, to Cores 36x, 35x, 34x, 34x and Cache 36x.

It isn't a huge increase, but it is noticeable in every day use, and in benchmarks. For long running rendering or compute jobs, the effect is very noticeable in reduced run times.

This CPU performance increase also helps increase the FPS results when unlocking the clocks for the GPU with Asus Tweak Tool for Graphics cards for then G750JW/JX/JH + G751JL/JT/JT and using MSI Afterburner with the G750JM/JS/JZ/JY + G751JM.

Where did you see underclocking for the 4860? Was that on an Asus laptop, or an Alienware/MSI - those laptops can't handle the heat - so underclocking is what they do, we don't need to do that with the G750/G751.

You don't need to underclock your CPU on the i7-4710 - why do you do that? You can let the laptop control the heat itself, you don't need to help it along - it's not necessary.

For those that have long running rendering batch jobs, or other 100% CPU/GPU work, they can drop the multiplier on Cores 3/4 until CPU Thermal Throttling is stopped - but if they aren't getting Thermal Throttling then there is no reason to do it.

The CPU will downclock itself from Maximum turbo after a designated time period, and will reduce performance if the Power load is exceeded, and it will Thermally Throttle if the CPU gets above 93c for an extended time - it drastically downclocks in that situation so you want to stop the CPU from hitting Thermal Throttling.

Your settings 33/x33/x32/x32 are way too low, given your 4710 has even higher multipliers than my 4700, you are throwing away performance, whether you notice it or not, for no good reason - are you Thermally Throttling? Do you run long 100% CPU/GPU performance runs? If not you can go back and set XTU multiplier sliders up all the way 🙂

There have been lots and lots and lots of people that use XTU to set maximum multipliers, and use Asus Tweak Tool / MSI Afterburner to get maximum performance available from their laptop. And there are no reports of failures. I have been doing real OC'ing for many years, and have never lost a GPU/CPU to OC'ing. These are tools / api's provided by the CPU and GPU makers for the vendors and users to get the best performance from their computers.

Don't worry, performance tune for maximum performance, and be happy 🙂

[AQUASTEVAE]

hmscott wrote:
NitroX, you have a number of misunderstandings going on in regards to XTU and "OC'ing" for the mobile Haswell.

There is no danger, first of all. There is really no OC involved - at least not what you are trying to express.

XTU only lets you unlock the multipliers to run at maximum. Intel ships the CPU slightly de-tuned, reduced multipliers, because they can't count on the best cooling being available in every installation.

The G750/G751 has great cooling so Intel provides their Exterme Tuning Utility - XTU - to allow users to increase the multipliers to their design maximums. This isn't overclocking, this is configuring the CPU to use the intended performance in an environment that supports it.

It isn't time consuming, you install the Intel XTU app, open it up to the Controls tab, and slide the multiplier slider up to the maximum setting. You don't play with the clock settings, only the multiplier.

It takes 10 minutes to install, set the settings, Apply them, Save them to a Profile that will load each time the system starts. There is nothing else to do to increase the performance.

My i7-4700HQ lets me increase the multipliers for all 4 cores, and the CPU cache, to Cores 36x, 35x, 34x, 34x and Cache 36x.

It isn't a huge increase, but it is noticeable in every day use, and in benchmarks. For long running rendering or compute jobs, the effect is very noticeable in reduced run times.

This CPU performance increase also helps increase the FPS results when unlocking the clocks for the GPU with Asus Tweak Tool for Graphics cards for then G750JW/JX/JH + G751JL/JT/JT and using MSI Afterburner with the G750JM/JS/JZ/JY + G751JM.

Where did you see underclocking for the 4860? Was that on an Asus laptop, or an Alienware/MSI - those laptops can't handle the heat - so underclocking is what they do, we don't need to do that with the G750/G751.

You don't need to underclock your CPU on the i7-4710 - why do you do that? You can let the laptop control the heat itself, you don't need to help it along - it's not necessary.

For those that have long running rendering batch jobs, or other 100% CPU/GPU work, they can drop the multiplier on Cores 3/4 until CPU Thermal Throttling is stopped - but if they aren't getting Thermal Throttling then there is no reason to do it.

The CPU will downclock itself from Maximum turbo after a designated time period, and will reduce performance if the Power load is exceeded, and it will Thermally Throttle if the CPU gets above 93c for an extended time - it drastically downclocks in that situation so you want to stop the CPU from hitting Thermal Throttling.

Your settings 33/x33/x32/x32 are way too low, given your 4710 has even higher multipliers than my 4700, you are throwing away performance, whether you notice it or not, for no good reason - are you Thermally Throttling? Do you run long 100% CPU/GPU performance runs? If not you can go back and set XTU multiplier sliders up all the way 🙂

There have been lots and lots and lots of people that use XTU to set maximum multipliers, and use Asus Tweak Tool / MSI Afterburner to get maximum performance available from their laptop. And there are no reports of failures. I have been doing real OC'ing for many years, and have never lost a GPU/CPU to OC'ing. These are tools / api's provided by the CPU and GPU makers for the vendors and users to get the best performance from their computers.

Don't worry, performance tune for maximum performance, and be happy 🙂

hmscott, i have taken your advice and using etu, i have pushed my multiplyers all the way up. they now read 37x 36x 35x 35x, with a cache ratio of 37x. afterwards, i ran processor and memory stress tests, and of course both passed, with a maximum temp. at any given time during the tests of
only 76c, which only hit this a few times during the tests. so with the multiplyers at this setting, is that the maximum tuning i can do to get the best performance safely out of this processor? thanks in advance.