RMA CPU for Spectre Meltdown

[Arne_Saknussemm]

OK...so I tried to RMA my Intel CPU for the performance penalty associated with Spectre and Meltdown mitigation.

This the reply:

(Names have been changed to protect the identities of those involved in this exchange...but a small Spectre script can probably find that out if you want)
(particularly insulting lines)

Dear Arne Sakunssemm

We appreciate that you are taking time to contact Intel about your concerns. We understand that the security and performance of your devices are important to you.

Performance impacts are workload-dependent, and, for the average computer user, should not be significant. This means that the typical home and business PC user should not see significant slowdowns in common tasks such as reading email, writing a document, or accessing digital photos. For Intel’s latest performance testing results, see https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/intel-security-issue-update-initial-performance-data-results-c...

Please check with you operating system vendors and system manufacturers, and apply any available updates as soon as they are available. You should do this whether you use an Intel-based system, or other computer or mobile device. The following link provides full details on this topic:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/facts-about-side-channel-analysi...

Deploying OS and firmware updates is the industry standard and common practice when vulnerabilities are discovered. In relation to your concern raised in this case, functionalities officially supported by your CPU will not be disabled nor modified by this firmware in any case

In this instance, Intel and our industry partners have followed this standard approach, and updates have been issued or are becoming available. Intel honors its warranty policies and provides refunds or replacements when appropriate. Please note that warranty for this CPU is 3 years after the date of purchase appearing in your invoice, our online tool gives you only an estimation based in the Batch number of the CPU. In this case, Intel expects the updates being provided to mitigate the vulnerability.

I will now proceed to close this Service Request, should you have any other query please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Intel Clone
Intel Customer Support

[xeromist]

Ah Arne, ever the comedian! I'm sure Intel had a good laugh at this. 🙂

[Arne_Saknussemm]

Hey xeromist!...I'm sure they did 😮

Next time I write them I'll include a photo of my new AMD rig...

Then we'll see who's laughing 😄

[psyka]

Arne Saknussemm wrote:
Hey xeromist!...I'm sure they did 😮

Next time I write them I'll include a photo of my new AMD rig...

Then we'll see who's laughing 😄

I dont believe anyone will actually laugh but if they would, they would probably laugh as much.
Im just a consumer that dont care if its Intel or AMD I buy what suit me best at that moment.
But I really question these moments when everyone makes one company into saints and shower the other with pure hate.

https://www.techarp.com/guides/complete-meltdown-spectre-cpu-list/2/

Doesnt anyone understand that the fixes we have recieved has been under development for 7 months already. They got leaked a bit faster since someone blew the horn a bit sooner than agreed upon and yet even when a group of top companies has worked together for such a long time they know so little
The entire industry is working this way and both Intel, AMD and every involved company stayed silent and released CPU's with the knowledge about this during this time.
And in both companies defence, while they released their CPU's they probably believed that it could be fixed. No CEO will commit company suicide on purpose.

Meltdown did not concern AMD at all, but Spectre is and Spectre is the one no one really know how big it will turn out to be.
While Intel surely can be questionable in many different areas around this doesnt mean that AMD is much better.
I could list all the questionable things Intel have done but thats already covered but what about AMD?

Why did it take so long for AMD to stop mislead and say they are immune when no one knew and still dont know exactly what has to be done?
They finally released a press release where they admit they are indeed effected by Spectre, while trying to tone it down, just as Intel did and if you ask me, they are both equally shady when they assure certain things. Spectre will have no immediate or comprehensive solution and thats what is the most serious part.

Intel saying "The average user wont notice anything" and after first patches "Only old CPU's will notice"
AMD saying "Near zero risk" and later on after first patches "We are working on a fix"

Again, Im not a fanboy of any of these, I buy whatever is best at the moment, but here is something that can shows what Im talking about:
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/60580/amd-hit-class-action-lawsuit-over-spectre-meltdown/index.html

I mean, Intel sucks, all get it. But AMD isnt the solution, they just ride on public opinion while being just as shady.
AMD knew about Spectre, AMD was involved during these 7 months too. Spectre is what will cause the most trouble for years.
Intel released already developed CPU's, AMD released already developed CPU's.
Intel mentioned Meltdown, Spectre on their website and in their press releases, AMD didnt mention Spectre on their website in the beginning even when they knew.
Intel CEO dumped stocks, AMD CEO took a freeride on the release of their Spectre vulnerable CPU releases, then probably even more pretending they are at "near zero risk" as their stock skyrocket 40% or something just to drop again when they finally sort of agree that they are indeed vulnerable. Who made a nice chunk of money on that move?

Please wake up a bit, welcome to capitalism where the business aspects goes before anything else as long as its legal.
Just wait and see until someone actually know how big of a problem this will be, until then we cant do anything and no one can know for sure. Not even AMD..
Anyway, go ahead and send a picture of your AMD build to Intel, Im sure it will stop them from laughing and just walk silently to the bank in the future.

The power of internet is that all information is there, the downsides of internet is that a majority doesnt make use of that.
There is plenty of reading to find and will help you to see how big of a mess this whole thing actually is. Thanks to ignorance information are thrown left and right and may or may not be true and I cant really know, Im really just questioning why so many seem to believe AMD is so open and honest.
As a consumer you should never blindly trust another company, especially not in situations like this.

Just remember, no one knows where this ends, rushing out to buy any system right now is probably not the smartest thing to do.

Here is some links to random stuff that should be enough for you to make your own conclusion. Happy reading..

Official: https://meltdownattack.com/

*EDIT* forgot the link that provides info on what happend during these 7 months in the shadows:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/11/16878670/meltdown-spectre-disclosure-embargo-google-microsoft-lin...

https://blog.malwarebytes.com/cybercrime/exploits/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-fallout-patching-prob...
https://blog.qualys.com/news/2018/01/16/meltdown-spectre-mitigation-is-a-work-in-progress
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amd/insiders?pid=13829347
https://blog.barkly.com/meltdown-spectre-patches-list-windows-update-help
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/11/16880922/amd-spectre-firmware-updates-ryzen-epyc
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/261920-amd-releases-updated-risk-guidance-meltdown-spectre-cla...
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/01/google-says-their-spectre-and-meltdown-fix-is-the-best-while-a...
https://www.cnet.com/news/amd-spectre-affects-processors-chips-intel-arm/
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/chip-flaws-spectre-and-meltdown-are-actually-three-vulnerabilities-...
https://hackaday.com/2018/01/15/spectre-and-meltdown-how-cache-works/
https://www.techspot.com/article/1556-meltdown-and-spectre-cpu-performance-windows/page3.html

[4Strings]

psyka wrote:
I dont believe anyone will actually laugh but if they would, they would probably laugh as much.
Im just a consumer that dont care if its Intel or AMD I buy what suit me best at that moment.
But I really question these moments when everyone makes one company into saints and shower the other with pure hate.

https://www.techarp.com/guides/complete-meltdown-spectre-cpu-list/2/

Doesnt anyone understand that the fixes we have recieved has been under development for 7 months already. They got leaked a bit faster since someone blew the horn a bit sooner than agreed upon and yet even when a group of top companies has worked together for such a long time they know so little
The entire industry is working this way and both Intel, AMD and every involved company stayed silent and released CPU's with the knowledge about this during this time.
And in both companies defence, while they released their CPU's they probably believed that it could be fixed. No CEO will commit company suicide on purpose.

Meltdown did not concern AMD at all, but Spectre is and Spectre is the one no one really know how big it will turn out to be.
While Intel surely can be questionable in many different areas around this doesnt mean that AMD is much better.
I could list all the questionable things Intel have done but thats already covered but what about AMD?

Why did it take so long for AMD to stop mislead and say they are immune when no one knew and still dont know exactly what has to be done?
They finally released a press release where they admit they are indeed effected by Spectre, while trying to tone it down, just as Intel did and if you ask me, they are both equally shady when they assure certain things. Spectre will have no immediate or comprehensive solution and thats what is the most serious part.

Intel saying "The average user wont notice anything" and after first patches "Only old CPU's will notice"
AMD saying "Near zero risk" and later on after first patches "We are working on a fix"

Again, Im not a fanboy of any of these, I buy whatever is best at the moment, but here is something that can shows what Im talking about:
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/60580/amd-hit-class-action-lawsuit-over-spectre-meltdown/index.html

I mean, Intel sucks, all get it. But AMD isnt the solution, they just ride on public opinion while being just as shady.
AMD knew about Spectre, AMD was involved during these 7 months too. Spectre is what will cause the most trouble for years.
Intel released already developed CPU's, AMD released already developed CPU's.
Intel mentioned Meltdown, Spectre on their website and in their press releases, AMD didnt mention Spectre on their website in the beginning even when they knew.
Intel CEO dumped stocks, AMD CEO took a freeride on the release of their Spectre vulnerable CPU releases, then probably even more pretending they are at "near zero risk" as their stock skyrocket 40% or something just to drop again when they finally sort of agree that they are indeed vulnerable. Who made a nice chunk of money on that move?

Please wake up a bit, welcome to capitalism where the business aspects goes before anything else as long as its legal.
Just wait and see until someone actually know how big of a problem this will be, until then we cant do anything and no one can know for sure. Not even AMD..
Anyway, go ahead and send a picture of your AMD build to Intel, Im sure it will stop them from laughing and just walk silently to the bank in the future.

The power of internet is that all information is there, the downsides of internet is that a majority doesnt make use of that.
There is plenty of reading to find and will help you to see how big of a mess this whole thing actually is. Thanks to ignorance information are thrown left and right and may or may not be true and I cant really know, Im really just questioning why so many seem to believe AMD is so open and honest.
As a consumer you should never blindly trust another company, especially not in situations like this.

Just remember, no one knows where this ends, rushing out to buy any system right now is probably not the smartest thing to do.

Here is some links to random stuff that should be enough for you to make your own conclusion. Happy reading..

Official: https://meltdownattack.com/

https://blog.malwarebytes.com/cybercrime/exploits/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-fallout-patching-prob...
https://blog.qualys.com/news/2018/01/16/meltdown-spectre-mitigation-is-a-work-in-progress
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amd/insiders?pid=13829347
https://blog.barkly.com/meltdown-spectre-patches-list-windows-update-help
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/11/16880922/amd-spectre-firmware-updates-ryzen-epyc
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/261920-amd-releases-updated-risk-guidance-meltdown-spectre-cla...
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/01/google-says-their-spectre-and-meltdown-fix-is-the-best-while-a...
https://www.cnet.com/news/amd-spectre-affects-processors-chips-intel-arm/
https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/chip-flaws-spectre-and-meltdown-are-actually-three-vulnerabilities-...
https://hackaday.com/2018/01/15/spectre-and-meltdown-how-cache-works/
https://www.techspot.com/article/1556-meltdown-and-spectre-cpu-performance-windows/page3.html

Thanks for all the links!

I don't think anyone here actually thinks of Intel as the devil and AMD as a saint. It seems to me that the issue at hand is that because of the performance hit that the Patch causes, you're not getting all the "performance" you're paying for when buying an Intel CPU.
I haven't done much reading, but just from personal experience after applying KB4056892 (the first major Spectre/Meltdown patch) on my Xeon-based (E3-1505M) laptop there has been a small but perceptible slowdown of even everyday tasks like compiling code and even launching some applications. On the other hand, I haven't noticed any changes on my Threadripper-based desktop, which also has KB4056892 applied.

I don't know if this is just an anomaly, but I think that that's the main problem we all have with Intel right now: the discrepancy between advertised and real-world performance post-patch.

[psyka]

4Strings wrote:
Thanks for all the links!

I don't think anyone here actually thinks of Intel as the devil and AMD as a saint. It seems to me that the issue at hand is that because of the performance hit that the Patch causes, you're not getting all the "performance" you're paying for when buying an Intel CPU.
I haven't done much reading, but just from personal experience after applying KB4056892 (the first major Spectre/Meltdown patch) on my Xeon-based (E3-1505M) laptop there has been a small but perceptible slowdown of even everyday tasks like compiling code and even launching some applications. On the other hand, I haven't noticed any changes on my Threadripper-based desktop, which also has KB4056892 applied.

I don't know if this is just an anomaly, but I think that that's the main problem we all have with Intel right now: the discrepancy between advertised and real-world performance post-patch.

As I understand, the first Microsoft patch in Windows covers mostly the issues with Meltdown and Spectre Variant 1. But as this is a bit confusing Im sure confirmation of this is found in the links somewhere.

Spectre Variant 1 and 2 is where both Intel and AMD is vulnerable and where Variant 2 is the one that has no immediate or comprehensive solution (so no one can really give a promise about anything around it) is where Microsoft believes the biggest risk of performance issues can appear.

"As for Variant 2 (Branch Target Injection, the variant MS believes has the greatest chance of harming performance), AMD continues to believe the company’s architecture makes it difficult to exploit. AMD is distributing microcode updates and MS has OS patches to coming to make this issue harder to leverage for system attacks. Once again, no performance impact information has been published."
Found here: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/261920-amd-releases-updated-risk-guidance-meltdown-spectre-cla...

[Raja]

Nothing is perfect in this world. Question is the type of imperfection you're willing to accept. You'll find irksome issues on both sides, as well as things to like.

And you'll find some differences in overclocking, fo' sho'.

[Arne_Saknussemm]

Raja@ASUS wrote:
Nothing is perfect in this world.

Outside of Norton St Philip cricket pitch, of course, you're right...

I was looking to a new platform to escape the Intel Price/Performance ratio anyway and if I get ninety-odd percent of the performance so much the better. The tweaking is more fun for me than the end numbers in any case

Silent Scone wrote:
The tides certainly haven't turned

Exactly

[restsugavan]

From my experience since R4E + 3960X Revision C1 . The only reason that Intel could RMA your CPU and sending the new one depending on your business usages.
If the CPU was impact your business usages you'll be grant to replace your CPU with the new one. I'd got 3960X Revision C2 after contacted them.

[Arne_Saknussemm]

restsugavan wrote:
If the CPU was impact your business usages

Yeah I'm not done writing to them...I don't have microcode update etc. I will batch process photos and render a video and record times...when all "patches"/"mitigations" are in place I'll do it again and go from there...