Issue with AI Suite and RYUJIN AIO cooler

[jeanjacques]

Hello,

I have a global problem having my Ryzen 9 3900X not getting too warm.

I have an Asus Crosshair VIII Hero wifi motherboard, and an Asus RYUJIN 360 AIO cooler.

In order to manage the cooler, there are two softwares made by Asus. It is Armoury crate and AI Suite III.
As everything is made by Asus, it should normally be working altogether perfectly.
But in fact it is not, and that is why I'm here to share my problems, what I've already figured out, and what I don't understand.

First of all, AI suite and Armoury crate are in conflict.
If I write a different configuration for my AIO fans in armoury crate than in AI suite, my fans will fluctuate constantly between the two signals they receive.
So in order to prevent that, you must set the same parameters in both softwares.

The thing is that you can't really uninstall one of these soft, as they don't do exactly the same functions. So you need both.
That's a first thing that I've figured out, which was not that obvious to me at the beginning.

Then I've found another big issue.
Even if I save my profile in AI suite, it doesn't seem to load automatically at windows start.

I'm not sure what does create this problem, if this comes from Armoury crate or AI suite, but everytime I start windows, my cooler seems to run correctly at the right RPM (I have HWinfo monitor loaded first when windows starts). But meanwhile everything is loading at the windows start, for some reason, my fans go down to 300 RPM and even 0 sometimes. My CPU temperature raises pretty fast at this moment and can get to 85+ celcius degrees.
So I have to quickly load my own profile in AI suite to prevent overheating.


There is a second main issue with my cooler.
It comes with a small fan on top of the pump, hidden behind the LCD screen. This fan is really noisy.
You can change the speed of this fan in AI suite and Armoury crate (both must have same settings).

My guess is that the fan speed is linked to pump speed, as this might be the same motor.
My guess is verified by the CPU temperatures.

If I make this fan run full speed, I will have really high CPU temps.
If I set this fan to a fixed speed at 40%, I will gain more than 10°C efficiency on my CPU. (I mean CPU temp is 10°C lower than if fan is full speed).

Then, why would the system be more efficient at 40% than at 100% ?
Because this is not only the fan speed but also the pump speed.
If you run you pump too fast, the water flow becomes too important in comparison to the air flow. Then temperatures of the water and the air tend to be close to each other.
If there is no temperature difference between air and water, then there is no heat exchange (well there is still but only a few).

So running the pump slower, allows the water to heat up on the CPU and then be cooled down by the radiator.

During my tests, I have tried different values between 40 and 52% pump speed. There seem to be no real efficiency difference. I get to 75°C max while it was heating up to 88°C with pump speed at 100%.

52% is the highest value which was tolerable to my ears regarding the noisy fan on top of the pump.

The thing is if you leave your AIO cooler with default settings, you will have high temperatures, noisy fans that will constantly fluctuate in speed making the noise even worse.


So, could anyone help me out to find what does cause the boot up issue when my AIO fans go down to 300 or 0 RPM ?

I appreciate your answer



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I am not able to post a new thread or post because of an Apache error "Access denied" on your server.
So I edit here to post this other problem :

My high temperatures on the Ryzen 9 3900X are not only due to the AIO cooler.

The motherboard, Asus Crosshair VIII Hero wifi, gives too high voltage to the CPU.
Well, I guess Asus followed AMD instructions but with everything set to Auto in the bios, my CPU will run at 1.48V idle.
The voltage will vary and drop in case of CPU charge increase.

When everything is set to auto in the bios, Precision overboost is enabled.
If Precision overboost is enabled, it seems to change the behaviour on the CPU voltage.

When Precision overboost is disabled, the CPU seems to have a fixed 1.1V voltage.
When enabled, voltage will vary between 0.86 to 1.48V during utilization in windows.


The behaviour with precision boost enabled cause the CPU to have high temperatures. The fact that his clock and his voltage vary this much and this fast causes high peaks of temperature.
The cooler is trying to catch up and vary as well.

For some times I have been running my CPU at 42x (4200mhz) with everything else to auto but CPU voltage set to "offset mode => - (minus) => auto".
The default minus to auto seems to be 0.2V as the CPU voltage is then 1.28V (so 0.2 below 1.48V).
Setting the offset mode makes the cpu voltage fixed.

With my CPU at fixed voltage my idle temperature is at least 10 degrees better than with the auto value of 1.48V.

Funny fact, I have of course tried to modify the value of the offset. anytime I've tried below than 0.2V my CPU was no more stable at 4200 mhz. So I had to keep the default value to make it stable.

Then, after I've figured out the link between precision boost and cpu voltage, I've tried to disable it.
It was set to Auto, but with a fixed 42x coefficient, my clock would not change while in windows.
So I've tried to disable precision boost.
Then instead of offset mode, I've set the CPU voltage to manually 1.2V.

My CPU is now stable, still at 4200mhz, at 1.2V instead of 1.28V. Just because I've disabled precision boost, even though it was not working as the cpu clock was fixed.

I have also tried 1.1 and 1.15V at 3800mhz without precision boost, temperatures were strangely higher than at 1.2V


So, does that mean AMD has given high voltage specifications to Asus, in order to make the Ryzen 9 stable at 4.6ghz (as this is the max boost clock).
This still doesn't explain to me why would the voltage drops when CPU charge increases.


If anyone could answer to this, I would be grateful

[ptruongy787]

I'm also running a ryujin (240). When setting my fan curves on Fan Expert on AI Suite, you should be able to see 3 Ryujin fans you can control. For me, the first one is the pump speed, second is the actual Noctua fans on the radiator and lastly is the small fan on the CPU block. I'm not sure how you are able to control the cpu block fan and pump under one curve?

[jeanjacques]

I only have two curves that I can play on.



First curve is called ROG RYUJIN Fan and second curve is called ROG RYUJIN Fan1

The fan1 curve is in fact the small fan on top of the pump, but my guess is that it also change the pump speed


Btw, I have to say that my RYUJIN is plugged on the CPU fan connector and not on the AIO pump connector.
I tried the AIO pump connector but I would have an error message saying the cpu fan is missing.
I didn't want to take the risk and deactivate this alarm.
So my AIO is plugged on the CPU fan connector

[ptruongy787]

These are the 3 curves I can control.

[TheMajekalBum]

I compleatly uninstalled AI suite to stop it from fighting with armory crate. Armory crate controls my ryuo. My current case fans are controlled with a remote anyways. I plan on swapping to nicer fans that the MB can control(cheap hub currently, no pmw signal to the MB). I'm just gonna adjust the fan curves in my bios and forget about the on the fly control in windows. It'll be quite at low temp and it'll be taking off at high temp, all that really matters.

Also make sure the AIO is plugging into the AIO header and not a cpu/fan header. Fan headers are throttled and the aio header isnt. Pump should be running full blast the whole time.

[jeanjacques]

Ok thank you guys, I've finally uninstalled AI Suite and it solved all my problems.

ptruongy787 wrote:


These are the 3 curves I can control.

Before uninstalling AI suite, I have tried to get the same thing as you. Plugging the 4 pin connector to the AIO pump instead of CPU fan.
But I never could achieve it, I never saw the same third screen as you (RYUJIN AIO).

So what I've done to make it work finally :

1. Quit AI Suite
2. Uninstall AI Suite
3. Reboot windows
4. Open BIOS
5. Set Q-Fan On in the bios (it was disabled before because it was causing trouble). Set Q-Fan configuration exactly as in Armoury crate.
6. Start windows
7. Check if Armoury crate settings are the same as in the BIOS


I have tried to plug the 4 pin connector to the AIO Pump instead of CPU Fan connector.
It made my fan speed go up to 2700rpm instead of 2350rpm.
So I thought, is this connector delivering more power ?
I checked the motherboard manual, and it says 1A - 12V for both connectors. Only the High AMP connector can output 3A - 12V.

Well, I decided to keep the AIO pump connector as my fans could run faster.
But, I never could make them modulate, they would always be full speed, whatever setting I would try (bios and armoury crate).

So I switched back to the CPU fan connector, and oh surprise, my fans can still go full speed at 2700rpm.
Then, from there, after starting windows, and it seems, as soon as armoury crate was started, my fan speed has fallen and they have started to modulate as expected.

My main satisfaction is that I do not have anymore the bug at windows start, where my fans would go down to 300rpm or even 0.
So the high temperature peak at starting do not happen anymore.

The bad thing in this operation, is that I have no more possibility to change case fans settings while in windows. I must do it from the bios.
I can live with that, as the case fans settings is not necessarily the thing you change very often.
But to find out the right settings, it is of course better to be under windows. While you're using your machine, when you see some high temps, you can directly adjust the settings, and see which fan do indeed help to cool down your case.

That said, I'm quite disappointed with Asus on this point.
I have always trusted their products, and always was satisfied with what I purchased, so I hope Asus will fix that issue soon.

I would like to be able to use the software that is supposed to be installed with my mobo.
This is not like if it's the most expensive X570 chipset motherboard... (at least here in France)
I didn't buy a cheap mobo and expect to have best service, I bought very high end motherboard at very high price, and expect to have the best services.

So please ASUS team, could you do something to fix this problem ?
I'd be very grateful.

Hope you'll read my message and would appreciate an answer

[mdzcpa]

The fan built into the block has nothing to do with pump speed at all. As has been previously stated, there are 3 curves you can adjust. One is for the radiator fans, a second if for the block fan, and the third is the pump speed. They are all independent of one another.

[jeanjacques]

well, I can't explain why my AI suite did not show the three items.
I have installed windows and AI suite a couple of times, and I never got this third item.

So even if I reinstall it again, I don't believe it will work.

Is there something special I should do ?

btw my RYUJIN has been firmware upgraded with last version since the first day (and there's no newer firmware atm).