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Climate change ?

chrsplmr
Level 18
770 Views
40 REPLIES 40

jdfs


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mullet
Level 10
In the future we as humans are going to look back on this global warming like we did with Y2K a total joke.

Myk_SilentShado
Level 15
Ahhh Y2K, when Micro$haft proliferated the bull that is was to get people to buy newer computers...never mind the fact that the Y2K update was a total scam, cos if computers really needed the clock fix, a BIOS update would have been needed too lol....Damn that brings back memories, I was only 17 back then too.

Mandangalo18
Level 9
Arne, how is peer-reviewed literature the same thing as dogma, or how do political agendas influence peer-reviewed literature when it has built in mechanisms to keep it out? How is linking the peer-reviewed literature shouting down the opposition?

And there was probably never a consensus that the Earth was flat, since you could look at the shadow of the Earth cast on the moon and see that it was round for all of human existence.


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Arne_Saknussemm
Level 40
Hey Mandangalo18...it is quite simple..if your peers are earning their living from the same gravy train then sure they are going to give your work the thumbs up...it is relatively simple for any process to be corrupted by human folly... science is no exception. The idea that the peer review process is some foolproof guardian of scientific truth is untenable. The peer review process I can tell you first hand is rife with egos, protectionism and funding wars and very little to do with objective truth seeking at the best of times. At worst, well, I would point to climate modelling...

Who pays the piper calls the tune...funding in "climate research" has it's own bubble and is politically driven. Politics and real science do not mix...when they do you get hockey sticks.

DooRules
Level 10
That's correct arne, except it is the likes of exxon that pay for 99% of just about any study that tries to debunk climate warming. And you talk about peer reviewed tests results.

And by the way, you are the one shouting the loudest here.
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Arne_Saknussemm
Level 40
Well, I'm sorry... surely didn't mean any shouting.:oJust expressing my opinion...this still is the discussion section right:confused:
You are of course right..it works both ways and I would be the first to point that out. My interest is merely in real science and the search for truth since we are but a short time living on this planet and it would be nice to think that in an age of information one had the right stuff.

🙂

Arne, is there any evidence to back up your claims? I don't think anyone is saying that peer-review is perfect, but what I am saying is that there are rigorous systems in place to keep researchers with financial ties to the funding out of said research. If the vast majority of climate science research had actually let that kind of bias happen, that would be extraordinary, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What you're talking about is an unbelievably massive conspiracy happening despite rigorous checks. So I would be very interested to read about the evidence of it.


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Arne Saknussemm wrote:
That is exactly my point 😉
There is a raging ball of fusing elements 96000000 miles away from us; even from this distance it has the power to burn the very skin off your body. It drives almost all life on the planet. Personally I would look there for the root cause of temperature changes.

This is a very good point, and one that has not escaped climate scientists. There has been quite a bit of research into this possible cause.
But the observational data does not support it, and even contradicts it:
1- If the sun were warming the atmosphere from space, we would expect to see a uniform warming all the way down to the surface.
Instead, what we observe is the troposphere (lower atmosphere) is warming, but the stratosphere (upper atmosphere) is cooling. This pattern is the smoking gun of anthropogenic global warming.

2-The planet is warming at the same rate during the night as it is during the daylight hours.

3- There is more warming during the winter months than there is in summer months

4- There is more warming at the poles than at the equator

These indicators contradict what would be expected from solar caused warming.

Moreover, solar activity has gone in the opposite direction from global temperatures. If the sun was to blame for the current warming, you would expect their activity to dovetail; instead, we observe a divergence. http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/463/2086/2447.abstract
32747
There is a negative correlation where a positive one would need to exist if the sun was responsible. These facts rule out the sun as a causal factor.


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Mandangalo18 wrote:
So I would be very interested to read about the evidence of it.


It's funny but the evidence for it is all over the place. Right there in your graph which shows solar activity declining while temperatures rise at the end; when even the IPCC has had to admit that global temperatures have fallen over the last 17 years. Prompting hasty explanations pulled out of a hat that the heat that is entirely missing from the data has "gone to the bottom of the oceans". Where is this fall (or sorry...in IPCC language lack of growth) in that graph?

Besides, who says solar activity this week or this year influences temperature this week or this year when talking global average....no one of any reputable scientific standing....etc etc.

I won't go on in this thread. I posted the link to a documentary earlier in this thread I think people would find interesting...it has different graphs. While I certainly wouldn't take them as gospel either it just goes to show that you can get models and graphs that show what you want from the very same poor collection of data. http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2012/02/06/the-sun-o-inconstant-star/

At the end of the day we all have to decide to think critically or follow the herd. The evidence for the perversion of science in this field is there and will of course come out slowly over the next 10 20 50 300 1000 years. Since it is over these later time-scales that climate change will be measured.

As for your bullet points they are entirely incorrect.

There has been no warming in the troposphere it has been at the surface which is where warming from the sun happens. Uniform warming of the atmosphere is not what would be expected. The weather balloon data is quite clear on this though now there is a frenzy to try and take these direct measurements and manipulate them with wind speed proxies etc. etc.

More warming during winter months?!:confused: percentage wise or something? and percentage of what? falling temperatures for nearly the last two decades? This is attributed to the sun by the IPCC but any warming not?!? I'd like to know a place where it gets warmer in winter on this planet.

Basically the science is not done but the conclusions are in and the policy decisions being made on them.
Any scientist worth their salt will tell you that the state of our climate knowledge, temperature measurements, modelling etc. etc. is pitiful...and far from any real understanding. That is not what you hear from certain politicians or the bought and paid for media who have zero understanding of any of this.

Anyone who dares to say this is subject to a witch hunt and would have been burned at the stake a few hundred years ago.

Society simply has not moved on..it is an illusion to think it has...the parallel with flat earth is perfectly valid. As was pointed out many knew the earth was round..it was and is common sense. You just stand on the beach for five minutes. Same with temperature on this planet...you just stand in the sun for five minutes.

Which I'm going to do now with a cool beer...nice talking with you guys as always!..over and out.:D