New to AMD, Requesting Advice on BIOS Settings

[aleph-one]

Hello all,

I just put together my first AMD build the other day and began my journey learning all the nuances of these systems. Board is a C7 Hero with an r9 3900x. Updated the BIOS and everyone is getting along just fine. However, the 3900x was running warm at 45-50 C idle at first because the BIOS had Vcore at 1.475. Did some research and from what I understand 3rd gen ryzen chips are naturally overvolted on x470 boards because even though the BIOS was updated to allow the use of 3rd gen, it was never updated with proper voltages and automatically runs greater voltages normally seen on 2nd gen chips (correct me if I'm wrong, want to make sure I have the concept right). Also I had to oc my ram, which appears to be running as advertised. So even though everything seems to be working well I wanted to be certain and throw up the params I changed in the BIOS to make sure I set everything correctly:

Offset CPU by-0.2 (Vcore is now 1.25, Idles at 30-35 C and tops out at 61 C running Cinebench)
Manually set RAM frequency to 3600 MHz
CAS Timings set to 16-16-16-16-36
RAM voltage set to 1.35
RAM boot voltage set to 1.40 (read that suggestion in a forum somewhere)
EVERYTHING else set to defaults (auto)

My goal is to optimize everything at stock speeds, then maybe oc down the line. Does this look right to you all? Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Specs:
C7 Hero (x470)
r9 3900x
16gb 3600c16 (16-16-16-36)
RTX 2080 Super
Fractal Celcius+ S28
All M.2 NVMe storage
EVGA G3 650w

P.S. Cinebench R20 multithreaded score is 6939, not too shabby

[RedSector73]

R20 I have scores normally fall between 7200-7300 3900x tuned system and I know of sister (near identical) system to mine with similar scoring and I'm sure you know that scoring in this is bound mainly to CPU horsepower and little to Ram. It can do better.

Not sure about voltage claims you state as reliable, however I don't run x470 board or stock cooler and there has been a lot of misinformation propagated on this subject, ie your reference to overvolting suggesting error by manufacture/bios, do you really think amd or asus want to cook your cpu for RMA process that you would win or is it more likely the posters talk rubbish?. I think they are wrong. Want to guess how many run on AUTO without issue .... many more than undervolt or read this misinformation (but if I was intel fanboy or troll hell yes I would post this, here cripple your new cpu 101 )

Typically I would leave that on AUTO and do and I own every generation of Ryzen including 4000 series on laptop. But I would set SOC Voltage, VDDG CCD Voltage, VDDG IOD Voltage, and the cLDO VDDP Voltage and of course DRAM Voltage if I was tuning my system. I have systems on which only use AUTO such as my 1800x is AUTO everything as it now my NAS/Plex Server and it does not matter, it is overkill for the job it does, been running that way since launch and still not dead or see above 45 on most days on a stock cooler.

For RAM, you want to use lowest DRAM voltage that does not result in errors, as this returns the best overall speed from RAM modules as well. Higher start voltage is only needed if you have as example 8d error and it might indicate higher voltage bump maybe needed during normal operation as well. Still not against the idea of using 1.4v as a start and dropping down if it was needed to get past memory training error that did not replicate in windows 10 use / memory testing.

Here is what I recommend you read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ahs5a2/demystifying_memory_overclocking_on_ryzen_oc/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/

Now tweaking this system your best off running with Ryzen DRAM Calculator which at time of post is version 1.7.3 / Thaiphoon.
To get baseline and then test things it has memory test to check for errors however you need to look to what is happening in the whole system as well, thus something like userbench (sample score https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/25176144 ) is free and fairly good at setting baselines and then seeing what changes improve or make worse. After that it is crap, Intel funded and manipulates data sets and not worth wasting oxygen on. There are paid ones that are more evenly balanced but free is hard to go by. https://www.userbenchmark.com/ to get the download.

Lastly you mention temps of 61 degrees top out, this isn't all that important if the temperature is below throttling then it is fine, within design specifications, and will last (almost / within margin of error) exactly the same time as anything within design thermal specifications regardless of where within those limits the cpu sits or the duration. Lower temperatures does not increase or decrease that final failure time drastically, this is another popular myth to all cpu's not just ryzen. So my 3900x system never reached above 75 in summer with ambient temperature on the day inside reading 40 and I typically see 60-65 degrees in normal weather (however it is under AIO). Don't take this mean I don't value lower temps, they give you much wider margin of error before throttling and that is good and do make us feel better about investment protection (ie expensive cpus).

Hope you find this of help.

[aleph-one]

RedSector73 wrote:
R20 I have scores normally fall between 7200-7300 3900x tuned system and I know of sister (near identical) system to mine with similar scoring and I'm sure you know that scoring in this is bound mainly to CPU horsepower and little to Ram. It can do better.

Not sure about voltage claims you state as reliable, however I don't run x470 board or stock cooler and there has been a lot of misinformation propagated on this subject, ie your reference to overvolting suggesting error by manufacture/bios, do you really think amd or asus want to cook your cpu for RMA process that you would win or is it more likely the posters talk rubbish?. I think they are wrong. Want to guess how many run on AUTO without issue .... many more than undervolt or read this misinformation (but if I was intel fanboy or troll hell yes I would post this, here cripple your new cpu 101 )

Typically I would leave that on AUTO and do and I own every generation of Ryzen including 4000 series on laptop. But I would set SOC Voltage, VDDG CCD Voltage, VDDG IOD Voltage, and the cLDO VDDP Voltage and of course DRAM Voltage if I was tuning my system. I have systems on which only use AUTO such as my 1800x is AUTO everything as it now my NAS/Plex Server and it does not matter, it is overkill for the job it does, been running that way since launch and still not dead or see above 45 on most days on a stock cooler.

For RAM, you want to use lowest DRAM voltage that does not result in errors, as this returns the best overall speed from RAM modules as well. Higher start voltage is only needed if you have as example 8d error and it might indicate higher voltage bump maybe needed during normal operation as well. Still not against the idea of using 1.4v as a start and dropping down if it was needed to get past memory training error that did not replicate in windows 10 use / memory testing.

Here is what I recommend you read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ahs5a2/demystifying_memory_overclocking_on_ryzen_oc/
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/

Now tweaking this system your best off running with Ryzen DRAM Calculator which at time of post is version 1.7.3 / Thaiphoon.
To get baseline and then test things it has memory test to check for errors however you need to look to what is happening in the whole system as well, thus something like userbench (sample score https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/25176144 ) is free and fairly good at setting baselines and then seeing what changes improve or make worse. After that it is crap, Intel funded and manipulates data sets and not worth wasting oxygen on. There are paid ones that are more evenly balanced but free is hard to go by. https://www.userbenchmark.com/ to get the download.

Lastly you mention temps of 61 degrees top out, this isn't all that important if the temperature is below throttling then it is fine, within design specifications, and will last (almost / within margin of error) exactly the same time as anything within design thermal specifications regardless of where within those limits the cpu sits or the duration. Lower temperatures does not increase or decrease that final failure time drastically, this is another popular myth to all cpu's not just ryzen. So my 3900x system never reached above 75 in summer with ambient temperature on the day inside reading 40 and I typically see 60-65 degrees in normal weather (however it is under AIO). Don't take this mean I don't value lower temps, they give you much wider margin of error before throttling and that is good and do make us feel better about investment protection (ie expensive cpus).

Hope you find this of help.

That was a huge help, thank you! Reset Vcore to AUTO, DRAM boot voltage to AUTO and applied the minimum safe params and SOC/VDDG voltages from Ryzen DRAM Calculator (now 16-16-16-16-34 @ 1.34v, also BIOS wouldn't let me set cLDO VDDP below 1 so I left as AUTO), ran a full memtest with no errors and will leave it on overnight to be sure, will also run userbench tomorrow and report back only in case anything is off. Cinebench score went up to 7274 right away, however idle temps were still in the high 40s and my fans were going crazy, under load it hit about 71 C, so for daily driving I split the difference and set offset at -0.1 and now I'm back to mid 30s idle and about 65 C under load, and my fans aren't high up on their curves anymore. Cinebench score is now at 7270 AND my temps are low with minimal fan noise so overall a good setup IMO, but like I said I will hit it with userbench to get the bigger picture tomorrow.

Thanks again, I appreciate the help!

[RedSector73]

cLDO VDDP is reporting incorrectly on my x570 board and sounds similar issue for yours. In order to set 0.900 of Volt would read 900 in current bios which is why I think you could not set below 1.

[aleph-one]

RedSector73 wrote:
cLDO VDDP is reporting incorrectly on my x570 board and sounds similar issue for yours. In order to set 0.900 of Volt would read 900 in current bios which is why I think you could not set below 1.

That makes sense, will check to see if that becomes available in future BIOS revs. I have one more question now, though. When idling, Vcore will cycle down from 1.4v, to 1.39v and gradually down to 1.019v then repeat this cycle every several seconds. The end result is the cpu temp (Tctl/Tdie in HWinfo) constantly gets bumped up to 38 or 39 C and settles back down to 35 and below in time with the Vcore cycling, and the fans sound like they're "breathing" because they kick up when the temp spikes and slow down as it settles. This happened when Vcore was set to AUTO as well as -0.2 and now -0.1 offset. Is this normal with ryzen chips? Never noticed it on intel.

Apologies if I'm hijacking my own thread with an off topic question.

[RedSector73]

You can tune the fans slightly higher to avoid the breathing response. I would call that responce normal for a 3900x.

The changes your seeing in voltage is 100% normal.

[ebilcake]

Leaving CPU on Auto isn't really an option, My Strix X570 overvolts and you can see that in the load temps. It gets toasty.

What I've learnt from going AMD, go Intel. It's easier to fine tune and boards behave as expected. Before anyone says that's BS. Lets put it this way. How many times have I had to reset cmos on my past two Intels systems over 10 years? Once or twice. On my Strix X570 and Prime, 50+, they're temperamental and generally a pain in the butt. I've given up tweaking memory timings as I'm fed up with resetting cmos. Also if the system doesn't shutdown properly or there's a power cut, the system will always have an issue posting, updating bios? Yep, you'll have reset cmos again.

Plus you don't have to put-up with fans on motherboards with Intel, you can actually hear that little fan underload, was not expecting that... :mad:

[Dude1070]

I have pretty much the same results as you. I too am new to AMD, fun stuff for sure.