Never ever do this.

[Melting_Point]

I was searching some of the threads here last night to see if anyone had solved the issue of RIVE motherboards not booting after being powered down. (I did end up finding that removing the CMOS battery for 30 mins seems to have solved the issue for now.) I noticed some very dangerous advice being given in one of the thread, and just thought I'd point it out and why it was dangerous.

The advice was to place the MB in the box it came in, and power it up. The boxes these MBs are supplied in are conductive, which is why they protect the board from ESD damage. I'm sure I don't need to explain why it's not a good idea to power up a MB while it's sitting on a conductive surface, any more than I need to explain why it's a bad idea to power a MB up while it's submerged in water.

Please, don't power your board up in the box it came in, and if you're guilty of advising others to do so in the past, stop giving out bad advice.

PS, the post I'm referring to came from a Super-Mod, I'd have thought they'd know better.

[Melting_Point]

Goggle Eye wrote:
Been told by different M/Board companies tech support to always always do the build on the box and test. Not saying you are wrong I always put the anti static bag under the mother board and then on top of the box. Is that a wrong procedure to use? Any plain old piece of flat card board as long as it does not have any graphics on the card board should be safe? Could the die used to do the graphics or put color in the card board be conducting the current?

The anti-static bag, like the conductive coating on MB boxes, is designed to protect your board while it's in storage. It prevents the build up of static charge between any 2 points that are touching the MB by ensuring there is a conductive path between those 2 points. However, it's not designed to protect the board when it's powered up.

What's the likelihood of doing this causing a problem with your board? I have no idea. I haven't spent any time at all ponding such things. Just like I don't waste any time trying to calculate the likelihood that wearing a seatbelt will save my life. I just put it on and be done with it. Make your test bed out of something non-conductive, and then you will never have the worry that you've introduced a conductive path to you motherboard that will change it's operation, or even damage it or the components plugged into it.

[meankeys]

The last thing I want to do is get in a pissing contest with you but for curiosity sake I did some testing on my own. I have several Mobo boxs some old and some new with and with out graphics and have yet to read any kind of conductivity. I even broke out my old Simpson analog meter witch is very sensitive. I tried all types of boxes no go. I even energized a box with a 9v battery and still could not get any reading at all. May I ask what box you tested I want to see for my self what your talking about. Please keep in mind I mean no disrespect and I am not trying to put you down in any way. I am just trying to find the facts.

[Melting_Point]

Hey meankeys. I'm talking about the box the board is actually shipped in, the one that's in contact with the MB when you open the box. The one EnderDragon posted a pic of on page 2 of this thread.

[haihane]

i'm genuinely interested,

Melting point, do you have a documented case where the box where the motherboard came in actually conducting electricity?

[Melting_Point]

haihane wrote:
i'm genuinely interested,

Melting point, do you have a documented case where the box where the motherboard came in actually conducting electricity?

Well I measured it with an Ohm meter. Ohm meters work by placing a voltage across a conductor and measuring the current that flows though them.

[Dr__Zchivago]

Melting Point, you're being absolutely ridiculous; the very idea that this is still being discussed is a little disturbing and stupid.

There is no "perfect insulator" on this planet, or any other of which we are aware. If this was actually a concern, you would've found an answer by now and it would've likely been in the form of a "non-conductive mat" which you would find at any electronics store. These mats are, believe it or not, conductive if a voltage potential high enough is applied across the surface in any set of dimensions.

If the mats are still not good enough for you, then go to Lowe's or Home Depot or the equivalent in your area and buy a slab of potassium-rich feldspar, and have a pane of glass cut to match. Then, you'll have a surface with an even higher dielectric constant than almost any privately available material, and you will no doubt be the envy of every competitive bencher on this forum.

The boxes have been used as a "test bench" for multiple decades, and if there are documented events where it has been proven without a doubt that the box was to blame and not faulty boards, then I would like to see the ratio of dangerously conductive boxes to total number of boxes used for testing.

Frankly, the fact that you continue to drive this absolutely ridiculous topic into the ground leads me to believe that you are, in fact, simply trolling the page; and, I for one am tired of seeing it appear when I click the "New Posts" link.

Dr. Z

[Melting_Point]

Thanx for your input Dr Z, you appear to have confused a low voltage causing current to flow through a conductor and a high voltage arching through a non-conductive medium, which has nothing to do with the issue I'm talking about. The box in question has a coating on it to make it deliberately conductive. It's 1000's of times more conductive than the rubber mat you mentioned. You'd also need several 1000Vdc to arch though such a mat. I don't know what voltage you run your board on (and nothing would surprise me at this point), but most of us don't have voltages anywhere near that.

You also seem to be under the misguided impression that when you do something to damage a delicate electronic circuit, that the resultant damage is immediately noticeable and attributed directly to the actions which caused them. This of course is again, an indication you have no idea what you're about. In fact, it should be I asking the likes of you for definitive proof. Can you say, without exception, that adding random resistances between random points all over your MB with have absolutely no impact on its operation? Like I told the last idiot who suggested that, that would be quite a statement. One I'd hope you'd be able to back up with some sort of evidence.

To be quite honest, I don't give a flying frogs fanny if you, or other who think they know what they're talking about (but don't know how to use a multi meter, or the relationship between resistance and conductivity, or the difference between a low voltage forcing current to flow through a conductor and a high voltage arching through a non-conductive medium) agree with me or not. This thread was designed to warn those who were being advised by these so-call experts, that using a surface that has deliberately been made conductive to protect against ESD damage, as a test bed, it amateur hour at best, and completely idiotic at worst. When setting up at test to test delicate electronic circuits, you'd want to use the least conductive material you could find. As the box these motherboards come in has been deliberately made conductive, they'd be a very poor choice indeed.

[Zka17]

I kinda tend to go with Dr. Zchivago's point of view... - the cardboard boxes in which the boards come has been good enough for many years for many users, period!

Those boxes may have or not conductivity/resistance and so on, but the fact is that they work...

As I said before, sometimes the theory does not match the practice... - just think about the mantra of having the top fans in a pc case as exhaust, because the heat tends to rise... 85% of the cases practically that not proves true...

[Retired]

some people just need the attention..

[Melting_Point]

WhitePaw wrote:
some people just need the attention..

Some people act like children when proven wrong.