Never ever do this.

[Melting_Point]

I was searching some of the threads here last night to see if anyone had solved the issue of RIVE motherboards not booting after being powered down. (I did end up finding that removing the CMOS battery for 30 mins seems to have solved the issue for now.) I noticed some very dangerous advice being given in one of the thread, and just thought I'd point it out and why it was dangerous.

The advice was to place the MB in the box it came in, and power it up. The boxes these MBs are supplied in are conductive, which is why they protect the board from ESD damage. I'm sure I don't need to explain why it's not a good idea to power up a MB while it's sitting on a conductive surface, any more than I need to explain why it's a bad idea to power a MB up while it's submerged in water.

Please, don't power your board up in the box it came in, and if you're guilty of advising others to do so in the past, stop giving out bad advice.

PS, the post I'm referring to came from a Super-Mod, I'd have thought they'd know better.

[Melting_Point]

WhitePaw wrote:
ESD strap?

i have heard about them.....

take it to the edge.....

are your house insulated with aluminum foil, to protect you from the northern light?

No, but I do always wear a seat belt while in a car, even though I've never been in a accident.

[Retired]

thread is just getting silly..

its more about mental health, than HW care 😉

Leaving thread now..

[Melting_Point]

WhitePaw wrote:
thread is just getting silly..

its more about mental health, than HW care 😉

Leaving thread now..

Yep, that's the way, when you can't play the ball, play the man. Nice one.

[jab383]

I think the term we are disagreeing over is "highly conductive." The resistive, not conductive, coating on the black inner cardboard is not "conductive" in the sense that it could cause the sort of damage that would happen if a MB was bolted into a case without standoffs. I can't think of any circuit on the MB that has a driving impedance high enough to be disturbed by 20K ohms. (A tri-state bus loaded with 20K in the high impedance state is not disturbed and will respond properly when driven.) <~\technobabble>

Zka17 has taken the pro approach that we can't expect of the average enthusiast. Likewise with your mat, Melting Point. I use a wrist strap and have for decades, but not a mat. The resistive inner box makes a good compromise that we can expect those who ask for help here to use. Sure beats a carpet.

Jeff

[Melting_Point]

jab383 wrote:
I think the term we are disagreeing over is "highly conductive." The resistive, not conductive...

Conductivity is inversely proportional to resistance. If something has a resistance, it is by definition, conductive.

coating on the black inner cardboard is not "conductive" in the sense that it could cause the sort of damage that would happen if a MB was bolted into a case without standoffs.

It's a lot more conductive than water, but you wouldn't advise someone to power their board on when it's wet, would you?

I can't think of any circuit on the MB that has a driving impedance high enough to be disturbed by 20K ohms. (A tri-state bus loaded with 20K in the high impedance state is not disturbed and will respond properly when driven.) <~\technobabble>

Are you suggesting that placing random resistances, as low as 20k* all over your motherboard, would not have any possibility of causing a malfunction? Are you sure about that? There's absolutely no chance of changing any of the output voltages of the VRM by altering any or the resistances in and around that area of the board? That's a pretty big call.

I suppose the most logical response to that would be "But why take the risk? And why tell someone else to take the risk?".

* 20k was the lowest I saw after taking about 5 readings, not the lowest possible resistance on the box. We also shouldn't make the assumption that the resistance in each box is the same. Boxes with a thicker coating would have a lower resistance, and therefore be more conductive.

[Arne_Saknussemm]

My Dear Ohms,

It seems that currently there is great resistance to the idea that the MB box could pass electricity.

There are those that directly oppose it and those that alternately do and don't depending on their capacitance for argument. Needless to say this is hardly conducting to enlightenment and might lead to a revolt on the forum in the absence of a regulator. If it comes to a fight one or two might be up on charges and have to spend the night in a cell.

Joule forgive me if I refuse to get involved since I was just out buying some apples amperes for a fruit salad.

I thought I'd relay you the news before a battery of questions on the matter are sent your way and cause an impedance to your enjoyment of your afternoon pipe.

Yours ecstatically

Dr Wattson

[Zka17]

Arne, that is brilliant! :cool: :cool: :cool:

jab383, I haven't setup that ESD protection for everyday handling of different hardware... as I said, it remained on my desk from some serious work... - but it gives me a peace in my mind now... 🙂

Melting Point, I believe your observations, but the practical experiences of multiple people shows that it's OK to use the box in which the board came in... - it happens, you know... theory not always translates in practice... maybe the possible damages shows their effect in very long term, and most people would change their hardware by the time those damages would show up...

[Melting_Point]

I understand that plenty of people have used their box as a test bed without issue - at least that they're aware of. I wasn't saying that doing so will cause an issue. I was saying that it will potentially alter the circuitry of your motherboard, and that could very well cause issue. Considering it would be just as easy to power up the board on a non-conductive surface, I can't see why anyone would take the risk. The water analogy should have been enough for most. The box is far more conductive than water, yet I'm pretty sure nobody would deliberately fire up their board when it was wet.

Honestly, I feel like a Dr in a room full of smokers, all of whom are telling me "Smoking doesn't kill you, I've been smoking for years and I'm still alive". Or perhaps how you might feel, if you saw someone advising people that AV software was a waste of time, based on the fact they knew plenty of people who had never had a virus.

[Arne_Saknussemm]

Zka17 wrote:
Arne, that is brilliant! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hehe...cheers Z 😮

Melting Point wrote:
The box is far more conductive than water,

Melting Point...I'm not saying you don't have a point but you really will have to explain this to me....if I fire up my board in a puddle it is dead...many fire up the board on cardboard etc. and nothing happens I don't get what you are saying...it goes against a lot of common experience at the very least...

Surely not talking theoretical pure water...

What can I place the board on for quick testing?...glass tabletop?...plastic or wood board?...my Y fronts?

[Arne_Saknussemm]

Zka17 wrote:
Arne, that is brilliant! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Hehe...cheers Z 😮

Melting Point wrote:
The box is far more conductive than water,

Melting Point...I'm not saying you don't have a point but you really will have to explain this to me....if I fire up my board in a puddle it is dead...many fire up the board on cardboard etc. and nothing happens I don't get what you are saying...it goes against a lot of common experience at the very least...

Surely not talking theoretical pure water...

What can I place the board on for quick testing?...glass tabletop?...plastic or wood board?...my Y fronts?

This system has worked for years and still does by the way 😉