Never ever do this.

[Melting_Point]

I was searching some of the threads here last night to see if anyone had solved the issue of RIVE motherboards not booting after being powered down. (I did end up finding that removing the CMOS battery for 30 mins seems to have solved the issue for now.) I noticed some very dangerous advice being given in one of the thread, and just thought I'd point it out and why it was dangerous.

The advice was to place the MB in the box it came in, and power it up. The boxes these MBs are supplied in are conductive, which is why they protect the board from ESD damage. I'm sure I don't need to explain why it's not a good idea to power up a MB while it's sitting on a conductive surface, any more than I need to explain why it's a bad idea to power a MB up while it's submerged in water.

Please, don't power your board up in the box it came in, and if you're guilty of advising others to do so in the past, stop giving out bad advice.

PS, the post I'm referring to came from a Super-Mod, I'd have thought they'd know better.

[Chino]

Exactly. One of the reasons why I always state to put it on top of the cardboard box.

But I agree with you, mate. Let's push the hell out of some PCs! Paw, bring the bulldozer!

[Retired]

Chino> What bulldozer?, the IGPU?

[Melting_Point]

Dr. Zchivago wrote:
The point is: set the motherboard ON the box (the box should be closed); and, if 20k Ohms isn't enough to prevent arcing, then put a non-conductive bag (your motherboard came wrapped in one) between the board and the box.

I agree, "test bench" can be unclear. Put the board ON the box.

Are we going to argue semantics? Or are we going to push the hell out of some PCs?

Dr. Z

Edit: Grrrr... Paw's faster response...

In the box, on the box, it's largely irrelevant. The box is conductive. Why would you use a conductive surface as a test bed?

[Retired]

Good night Dr Z..

Beauty sleep time.....

😄

[Zka17]

Mate, take out the board from it's box... put back the clear cover and TURN IT AROUND - I have done that I don't know how many times with different platforms... none of my boards shorted out...

You can do it, I guess, in the box too, but it will be difficult to connect all the power and add the SATA cables...

BTW, I have used the RIVE's, R3E's, CHVF-Z's boxes from Asus... maybe there are other manufacturers who use different boxes...

[Arne_Saknussemm]

Hmm strange...how conductive is the box? I mean anything is conductive if you put enough volts behind it.

I am another who always fires up a board first on it's box...to make sure it's working before I place it on the bench. Never had a problem ever.

Though most often I take the loose plastic film that covers the board and place it under the board...but not always...

Last board was my RIVBE for example on the back of the cardboard tray it came in on the plastic film...

[jab383]

You actually want that conductivity. About 20K ohms per square is just enough to dissipate static electricity that could otherwise harm the MB. In a case, MB ground is bolted to the metal of the case which helps protect from static charges. When the MB is outside a case, it's susceptible to any little spark that jumps off your finger.

I think the right place to but a MB for an improvised test like the one in question is on the black part of the inner cardboard.

Jeff

[Melting_Point]

jab383 wrote:
You actually want that conductivity. About 20K ohms per square is just enough to dissipate static electricity that could otherwise harm the MB. In a case, MB ground is bolted to the metal of the case which helps protect from static charges. When the MB is outside a case, it's susceptible to any little spark that jumps off your finger.

I think the right place to but a MB for an improvised test like the one in question is on the black part of the inner cardboard.

Jeff

Are you joking? Placing random resistances between random points on your motherboard is actually desireable when powering it up? What happens when one of those random resistances is place in such a place that it changes the way your VRM regulates voltage, and you pump 5V into you CPU?

If you want to protect your motherboard from ESD damage, wear an ESD wrist strap, which will ground you out via a high value current limiting resistor. But I'm willing to bet that half the expert who are disagreeing with me here don't even own one of these.

[Zka17]

Melting Point wrote:
If you want to protect your motherboard from ESD damage, wear an ESD wrist strap, which will ground you out via a high value current limiting resistor. But I'm willing to bet that half the expert who are disagreeing with me here don't even own one of these.

I have seen people wearing ESD wrist strap and placing the board directly on the rug on the floor... or other textile surfaces... - or just having the strap with other end not connected anywhere...

From my part I'm using both the strap and the surface of my desk has a mat too - both connected to this device:



Sometimes it does seem a little bit overkill - but this word "overkill" kinda looses its sense when benching... 😄
Seriously, I've got this anti-static protection for when I'm soldering on the boards, but then it does not look too bad on my desk... so it just stays there...

[Melting_Point]

Electronic components are most susceptible to ESD damage when they’re off the board. Once they’re soldered onto the board, the impedance of the other components around them offer quite substantial protection. But it’s always a good idea to take the necessary precautions.

Of course, placing a motherboard on a known static producer like a carpet is a silly as powering up a board while it’s sitting on a highly conductive surface. The reason some may feel it's safe to do this is that the damage which can be caused by such actions may very well go unnoticed immediately. Just because the board doesn't instantly burst into flames doesn't mean it hasn't been damaged. It might very well work fine for months before beginning to fail intermittently.

My ESD mat has a conductive surface underneath the mat which can be (and should be) earthed, which keeps the mat itself from building up any damaging charge, but the work surface of the mat itself is non-conductive (as far as I can see with my multimeter).