BD PROCHOT Red/Yellow in ThrottleStop (G731GW) - SOLVED

[AtGrigorov]

As I've googled and found no answer, will try my luck in this thread for hints or redirection:
When I start Destiny 2 or CS:Go, both my Core and GPU are blinking Yellow/Red as in the screenshot. No throttling is applied, but why are these indications On straight from launching the game, even without load or high temps (all bellow 90 C on Ultra High Settings and Turbo mode when playing). PCH maxes at 73C. What's the cause of these warnings all the time the game is running? If I use some high demanding CAD/CAM app, the laptop is fully loaded, reaching same temps and speeds, but no BD PROCHOT warnings are blinking (the Limit Reasons window is absolutely black even after 20 minutes of calculations, loaded at it's maximum).
The readings in HWiNFO64 are also strange to me. Why is IA: PROCHOT showing YES when BD PROCHOTs are lighted up? Happens both on Turbo and Windows mode in Armoury Crate.

[unclewebb]

BD PROCHOT stands for bi-directional processor hot. It is a signal path to your CPU. Any sensor, power, temperature or whatever, can send a signal down this line. This will force your CPU to throttle immediately. Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and it should show a decrease in the CPU multiplier when this is happening. Before you start logging, go into the Options window and check Add Limit Reasons to Log File and also turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring if you have one of them. Go play a game for at least 15 minutes and then attach a log file to your next post.

If BD PROCHOT is rapidly cycling on and off, you might not notice a huge decrease in performance. The log file should show a decrease in the CPU multiplier. Do not run HWiNFO and ThrottleStop Limit Reasons at the same time. HWiNFO constantly clears this throttling information out of the CPU. Limit Reasons will not be able to provide you with accurate monitoring information if HWiNFO is running in the background.

BD PROCHOT throttling uses the same mechanism within the CPU as thermal throttling. The CPU responds as if it was thermal throttling even though the CPU temperature is fine. Some monitoring apps, including Intel XTU, do not report BD PROCHOT throttling correctly. I know XTU reports thermal throttling during BD PROCHOT throttling episodes. This is not true at all. These two throttling reasons are not the same. HWiNFO might be reporting the same thing as Intel XTU.

Throttling problems due to BD PROCHOT are common. There is a possibility that a sensor is going bad and this problem will continue to get worse. When a sensor finally dies, it can send a permanent throttling signal to your CPU. Whether idle or full load, your CPU will be stuck at the minimum multiplier (usually 8). If it was my laptop, I would clear the BD PROCHOT check box on the main screen of ThrottleStop which should prevent any unnecessary throttling. With BD PROCHOT clear, your CPU will still be able to thermal throttle if the CPU ever gets too hot. BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT (processor hot) are two different signals within Intel CPUs.

Without being able to talk to the person that engineered your laptop, it will be next to impossible to find out what sensors have been plumbed into the BD PROCHOT line. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this and properly fix things but this is going to be next to impossible. Try phoning or emailing someone at Asus. Good luck finding someone that understands BD PROCHOT throttling.

[AtGrigorov]

Thanks a lot @unclewebb for your reply. You saved lots of people with your program. Respect!
I'm basically aware of what the main things mean. When I bought the laptop, it was stuck at multiplayer 8. It was when I found ThrottleStop and it's amazing capabilities. Returned the laptop to RMA with an explanation of the problem (and how it unlocks unchecking BD-P box) and they've replaced the motherboard. Than I've had issues with Thermal throttling under load and I've underclocked it with TS but still two of the cores were way hotter than the others. Repasted it myself and now there's no more throttling and all the cores have deviation of not more than 10-12 degrees C. When not undervolting for the experiment, Core, GPU and Ring instantly show 3 EDP OTHER warnings and sometimes thermal throttles during testing. Undervolted all is fine in rendering or CAD/CAM or 16 cores/1024M TS test (temps below 90 C) but right after a game is started, the BD PROCHOT warning appears. When the box is uncheck - no warnings ofcourse. Tomorrow will make the log file and post it in my next post (don't wanna be killed by my wife, playing games at midnight 😉 ).
The laptop is G731GW (i7 9750H/RTX2070).
Will add log file later and would be very happy for a response.
Best regards and great respect.

[unclewebb]

EDP OTHER across all 3 domains is sometimes caused by the PP0 Current Limit. Increasing that can help.

Interesting that you already returned your laptop once due to a BD PROCHOT issue. I find this is a common issue with certain laptops. It is also common in MSI desktop motherboards. It almost seems like some OEMs sourced some second rate sensors that have a high failure rate. Who knows.

The latest version includes the ability to adjust the PROCHOT Offset variable as long as it is not locked. It also includes Nvidia GPU MHz reporting and logging which can be handy when trying to troubleshoot performance problems while gaming. If you need those features, just copy the new ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder and overwrite the previous version.

TS 8.75 b4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RYy38wgvtndUhTMM6q5uJsKqt3ZV4NjL

Looking forward to seeing some log file data.

[AtGrigorov]

I've tried to Up the PP0 limit and it removed the EDP OTHER across all 3 domains when not undervolted (from 130 to 150), but did not remove the 2 BD-PROCHOT indicationsin in a game when undervolted (even if upped to 1023). I'm using Destiny 2 for test, but straight after loading the game and entering "the lobby" (which means I'm not even in the game itself), the BD-P starts. When rendering, the load is even higher, but no BD-Ps then. Guess it happens when both GPU and CPU are power loaded simultaneously, cause when I load the GPU to 2000 MHz with a CAD/CAM software in an operation in which only GPU is basically needed, there are no warnings too.






I couldn't find "Add Limit Reasons to Log File" into the Options window to check.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14_WSyxKDC1NF2XT5roMvAo2Jo5weExbm/view?usp=sharing - link to the LOG file

[unclewebb]

The Add Limit Reasons to Log File option is automatically checked on the newer TS versions. That is why you cannot find it in the Options window.

In the far right column of the log file you will see XPRO show up. This stands for eXternal PROCHOT which is another name for BD PROCHOT. ThrottleStop is detecting this while gaming and it is also recording a very subtle drop in CPU speed. Some of these drops are only lasting for maybe 0.1 seconds so it is probably not even noticeable while gaming. ThrottleStop uses high performance timers in the CPU so it can detect tiny changes in the CPU multiplier. On screen data while gaming is not as accurate. If this sensor continues to glitch out and get worse, you are definitely going to be noticing these drops to 800 MHz. That is what happens when BD PROCHOT is activated.

If you want the MHz drop to be a lot more noticeable in the log file, try turning on the More Data option on the main ThrottleStop screen. This changes the CPU sampling frequency to 8 times per second instead of once per second. If you do this, the CPU multiplier drop in the Multi column will be very obvious. Post another log file of that.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM   BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2020-05-07  06:48:58  39.92   69.0  100.0  100.0        0   83    1770    71   1.1049   37.0
2020-05-07  06:48:59  39.86   70.4  100.0  100.0        0   84    1770    71   1.1177   37.8
2020-05-07  06:49:00  38.00   78.9  100.0  100.0        0   87    1875    71   1.0988   39.9   XPRO
2020-05-07  06:49:01  34.50   86.0  100.0  100.0        0   83    1875    71   1.1111   40.4
2020-05-07  06:49:02  39.89   74.0  100.0  100.0        0   84    1740    71   1.1123   39.5
2020-05-07  06:49:03  39.93   72.7  100.0  100.0        0   84    1740    71   1.1138   39.2
2020-05-07  06:49:04  39.68   77.7  100.0  100.0        0   85    1755    71   1.1028   40.8
2020-05-07  06:49:05  39.93   74.2  100.0  100.0        0   85    1755    71   1.1118   39.7
2020-05-07  06:49:06  40.00   75.4  100.0  100.0        0   86    1755    71   1.1023   40.5

This section of the log file during an XPRO event shows the average multiplier go from approximately 40 to 38 to 34.5 before recovering back to 40. It might be subtle at the moment but it is definitely happening.

Long term, I would leave the BD PROCHOT box unchecked in ThrottleStop. It is not necessary. Your CPU will still thermal throttle if it ever gets too hot. Disabling BD PROCHOT does not interfere with this.

[AtGrigorov]

Thanks a lot for the reply @unclewebb. I've made a new Log with "More Data" checked:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dIGz93ui1yJ0imJ0-7oC_XL4u0iabdsj/view?usp=sharing

I also noticed all these drops in the first log file. Quite odd. I'm still trying to find the logic behind it happening only in games, but not in resource draining apps, which load the CPU and GPU even harder.
What are the negatives in unchecking BD-PROCHOT box? Could I (the computer) miss some event which could do some harm or I should not worry at all? Let's say I'm not thinking of another RMA intervention under warranty at the moment, cause two more weeks without a working machine is a no go.

Best regards and Great thanks for your effort helping me. Respect.

[unclewebb]

The sensor triggering BD PROCHOT could be power / current related. There is nothing excessive for power consumption in your log file so to me it looks more like an overly aggressive sensor or one that is glitching out. Really suspicious that you had to return one laptop for the exact same problem. With all of the people that I have helped, I can never remember a situation where this problem just fixed itself. It typically gets worse until a laptop is unusable.

Without knowing exactly what is triggering BD PROCHOT, it is impossible for me to say just disable it. I would disable it if it was my laptop but it is up to you. If you do not feel comfortable doing this then do not do it. As for another RMA, definitely not worth it. There is no guarantee that the next one will be any different than the one you have now. It might be worse or they might keep your laptop for a couple of weeks, not find anything and just ship back your same laptop.

There are short stretches in the log file where the multiplier drops down towards 31 or 32. That is not right. It would be interesting to see a log file with BD PROCHOT disabled just for testing purposes. I think you will see a lot fewer multiplier drops like this.

Based on your log, it seems like BD PROCHOT is cycling on and off very rapidly. I think the XPRO showing up in the log file is not a good indication of how often this is actually happening. Kind of like trying to take a picture of a top fuel dragster at the end of the drag strip. You are probably going to end up with lots of blank pictures.

[AtGrigorov]

Thanks a lot @unclewebb. I was also thing of power/current related problem.
Here's the link for a log file with PD-B unchecked with quite a lot of processes in the background (like running Skype connection) and in the first minute or two it was not in Turbo, but in Windows mode, which has triggered the PL limit:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jHCRh5lD_IBe-YU0CvL_5CVLT3yZVPXu/view?usp=sharing

My way of thinking is just as yours regarding RMA and others, so will just leave it unchecked. Anyway, they would not be able to replicate the issue with tests, as it only happens in games.
Actually, my second thought was, there are still 7-8 months of warranty and it would be better if it really "dies" as before on multiplier 8, so it would be replaced again under warranty (fingers crossed, for a new motherboard release to be replaced with). Or I'd better not have any such expectations 😄 😄 From this point of view - should I leave it checked or no. I guess the faulty sensor is always working anyway, only the readings from it are ignored? The point is - I want it working, to shorten it's life (of the sensor) if it's even possible.

[unclewebb]

Your log file with BD PROCHOT disabled shows a much more consistent 40.00 multiplier. This is how your CPU should be running. Previous log files were showing random drops towards an average 32 multiplier, usually with XPRO showing up in the log somewhere close to where these slow downs were happening. No more of that.

A sensor is an electronic device. Whether the CPU is listening to this sensor or ignoring this sensor, it will probably degrade at the exact same rate. Bad sensors will usually completely fail over time but the minor problem you are having might not get any worse than it is right now. No way to predict the future.

I always vote for leaving it unchecked. It has proven to be a pointless throttling method in so many different laptops. BD PROCHOT overwhelmingly creates far more throttling problems than it ever solves. Thanks for including lots of pics and lots of log file data.

Your original title says, NO CPU/GPU THROTTLING APPLIED. I disagree. The CPU throttling is minor but it is definitely there.