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APEX ENCORE +14900KS +Dominator Titanium 7200 stability help.

SinisterDev85
Level 11

Long time no see folks! 

Got this new build together and I've been riding the struggle bus trying to get a modest overclock stable.

Im honestly a bit overwhelmed with all the new settings this board has vs my previous Z590 Apex. Unfortunately it doesn't seem i hit the silicon lottery this time. My cpu scores a mediocre SP93/MC 75.

After some recommended voltage tweaks I've successfully been able to get the memory running stable in XMP Tweaked profile. Ran memtest in the bios and it did 7 passes with 0 errors.

I decided to tweak just a few familiar settings and see how good a job the AI overclock does. Made it into windows and ran Cinebench 24 and followed the usual routine for the AI to set a decent OC.  However, trying ro get that OC to run while on an XMP profile is where I've hit a roadblock. After about 5-10 seconds of running Cinebench, the program freezes and I need to force close it.

So here's so more details. I feel like im close to discovering stability. Im using the new TG Contact Plate and TG Kryosheet. This is my first time using a contact plate. At first I tightened down the thumb screws too much and that was causing instability issues. Cpu would thermally throttle instantly upon starting Cinebench, however my H170i would bring the temps down quick, but temps did spike high throughout the test. After redoing the thumb screws by hand only, not using a screwdriver, the difference was night and day!! Cpu never thermally throttled during the benchmark and temps overall were much lower. Lesson learned!

So now im trying to get a decent cpu overclock with the ram running in one of the 3 xmp profiles, and that's where I hit a wall. I think im going to have to abandon the AI OC and start manually tweaking the cpu. Which has been a little intimidating cuz i havent done this since the 11900k lol. Sooo many more options now.

Anyone have any advice, or could point me in the direction of a good video guide to watch? Im not seeking the highest OC available. I just wanna get a nice moderate cpu oc, hopefully with ram running one of the XMP's, and perform an undervolt (which i also need some direction on how to do properly.)

Im having trouble finding a helpful guide for my specific configuration. If anyone has any advice or can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it! 

 

Btw, it's good to be back, fam!

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro
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SinisterDev85
Level 11

So, MAJOR update here. I found the source of all my stability frustrations! This whole time it was the TG Contact Plate! The V2 of the contact plate is deceptively simple compared to the precision required to properly torque down the screws on the V1. Literally all it says in the V2 instructions is "hand tighten only". So I tightened the new screws down gently until they stopped. Apparently this is far too much pressure!

I found a discussion on Reddit in forming people to not use the new screws that come with the plate and instead use the original ones that came off the board. And to loosely screw them in. So I gently let the threads line up, and gave each screw about half a turn. Then I checked to see if the plate felt loose or wiggled at all. I tightened it down just enough for the plate to feel solid. I reassembled everything, loaded up the bios and set memory to XMP II. And VIOLA! windows loaded up and OCCT didn't find any memory errors after half an hour! Then I ran the large system stress test and had no crashes no errors for another half an hour! The difference was night and day!

I can't believe a little bit too much contact plate pressure was the source of all this frustration! Lol. So now I can finally start tuning the system properly! So far XMP I and II worked with no errors. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

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SinisterDev85
Level 11

Oh yeah, ive also updated the mobo to the new v1002 firmware. Forgot about that. Sorry, im working from within the realm of long-covid brain fog, so I've been pretty forgetful as of late lol. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

Silent_Scone
Super Moderator

Hi @SinisterDev85 

Couple suggestions first off. 

i. If struggling with stability, it's probably best not to use XMP Tweaked. This profile uses more aggressive timings. XMP I is the optimised profile validated by both the memory vendor and ASUS.

ii. Disable AI OC. It's not a good idea to overclock other subsystems before establishing whether the XMP profile / overclock is stable.

Try the following:

1. Clear CMOS

2. Set XMP II (This profile is the default DIMM profile and will have relaxed memory subsets).

3. Test stability with applications such as TM5 or Karhu RAM Test

Report back here with the outcome so we try to help you further.

13900KS / 8000 CAS36 / ROG APEX Z790 / ROG TUF RTX 4090

Thanks! I have much to learn about this current generation of cpu hehe. I'll go through these steps and see what I discover. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

Do you know a safe place to download TM5? Seems like every download im finding for it is triggering my AV, detecting malicious software. Thought i found a safe one, and it kept asking my if i wanted to install other free software like AVG anti-virus and like half a dozen others. I declined them all, and it installed them all anyway! And no signs of TM5 on the pc after installation. Oh lordy this has been a headache every step of the way lol. Gotta uninstall a buncha crap and pray my AV stopped anything potentially malicious. 

I'd try Karhu, but its a paid app and im totally tapped out atm. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

Think i found a safe one on the Overclockers.net site. Think i got it figured out now. Im also downloading this Anta777 config for it. Seems that's highly recommended. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

Alrighty. I followed your instructions and loaded up with everything on defaults with the RAM set to XMP II and this is not looking good, im guessing? Lol. It was reporting over 500 errors, and while i was trying to take a screenahot of the results, I got a bsod. Looks like this kit doesn't like even xmp II without some sort of manual tweaking.

What should I do next? 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

Lol this build is starting to make me crazy. I don't think ive ever had this much trouble achieving a stable overclock. I decided to pick up a set of Dominators just to compare two different ram kits. Got the 7200MT/s 48gb kit and im having all the same problems!

Im a bit overwhelmed by how finicky the 14th gen is. I got a solid OC running for the last couple years on my 11900k and z590 Apex. Spent a little while learning the new settings in the bios. Was easy to find simple guides to follow and then perform my own tweaks from there, but oh boy, not with this setup.

I even decided to check out the new XTU AI features. I rarely used XTU in the past. XTU quickly assessed my system and set up a pretty impressive OC that ran stable through various tests. However the ram was not running in any XMP profile or tweaked settings. It was running at stock settings. Soon as i try to do anything with either my Gskill or Corsair ram kits, the PC fights me at every step. 

I just wanna achieve a modest overclock, learn how to undervolt it best , have my ram running on one of the XMP profiles, and experience a smooth, quick and snappy system. Then if I decide to go further down the rabbit hole in the future and tweak things more after finally getting to enjoy my build, I'll have that option to do so.

Im genuinely starting to worry that this particular cpu's IMC is so weak that it can't handle running either of these kits at their rated speeds. Idk if I should be taking it back to Microcenter and praying to RNGesus for a better binned chip. Or if I should be taking my chances with it and trying to hunt down exactly what the problem is here. I have a limited return window.

I can't even seem to find a decent starter guide to overclocking on this board with this cpu, so i can familiarize myself with the overwhelming amount of new bios new settings since my last build. It really feels like overclocking 14th gen has become more difficult and more finicky. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro

I have some tips for you.  I have a Z790 Extreme with a 13900k (it is a fairly decent one though SP103, Pcores 113, E Cores 89, think my IMC rating was 80).  You can try these below but I can't guarantee they will work.

1. For the CPU - On Asus Multicore Enhancement - Set it to Disabled - Enfore all limits.  I strongly suggest you do this unless you have the proper cooling, such as a delid, direct die, contact frame and/or a custom loop.

2. Set your RAM to the XMP II Profile (Ensure your BIOS is the latest).

2. Set the VDD & VDDQ to 1.40, with a maximum of 1.45 (you'll have to test it, start with the max and reduce it). To set it to 1.45 you'll have to enable "High DRAM voltage mode".

3. Set the CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.15 up to about 1.25 (you'll have to test it as above).

4. Set the "CPU Input voltage" to 1.9 (this is a big one that threw me off for a long time).

5. Under advanced memory voltages, set the "IVR Transmitter VDDQ voltage" to the same as the VDDQ voltage above.

I can't guarantee this will work but this method worked with mine, and that's messing about with the different RAM, I got 7466Mhz (originally 7600Mhz but couldn't get that to run stable as the motherboard couldn't handle it) with 2x16GB T-Force Team Group (Hynix A Die), 7000Mhz with 2x32GB Kingston Beast Fury (Hynix A Die) and 6800Mhz with 2x32GB Corsair Dominator Titanium (Hynix M Die).  All these ran stable with tests such as Testmem5 with the Extreme and Absolut profiles, OCCT, y-cruncher and Karhu memory test. Once you get that stable you can dip in and tweak the secondary timings.  I can't see why you can't get 7200-7600 working on an Apex, that should be easy.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed reply! Much appreciated! I'll give these suggestions a try and see if I have some success.

Yeah, I've been surprised how difficult a process it's been to get this running stable. Haven't had this much of a struggle in years lol. I think part of the problem is this cpu in binned abysmally low, like bottom of the barrel low. I'm considering swapping it if I continue to struggle with getting the system stable. 

I think I may be able to keep temps under control with MCE, but I'll do some A/B comparisons. I am using a TG contact plate with a 420mm AIO in a Push/Pull config. Temps were pretty good in benchmarks after some bios tweaks. But I'll see how things look once I get everything all dialed in. 

ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | i9 14900ks | | G. Skill Trident Z5 8000 | 2x WD SN850x 4gb | Asus Strix RTX 4080 OC| Asus ROG Thor 1200w | Windows 11 Pro