Identifying a working 16GB RAM kit for the R4E from the QVL

[SplatMan_DK]

After getting a Kingston memory kit which really doesn't play nice with my R4E I have come to the conclusion that it will be much better to purchase a new kit rather than trying to get my current kit working (it's new and I'll use it in some other machines instead).

This time I thought I'd look through the Qualified Vendor List (QVL) and buy a kit listed on it.

Problem is: A lot of these kits are not available anymore 😞

I would have preferred a 16 GB kit, since apparently getting two 8GB kits does not guarantee a working setup on the R4E (i swear, modern machines are just way too picky when it comes to RAM!)

I decided on the G.SKILL F3-17000CL9Q-16GBXLD. But apparently nobody sells that kit anymore. My local hardware-pushers don't have it. My local e-shops don't have it. Amazon doesn't have it. E-bay doesn't have it.

They all do have the G-SKILL F3-17000CL9Q-16GBXM (notice the last XLD has been exhanged with XM) which is a lot similar, but not 100% (a few timings are changed).

The updated QVL on Asus' website has only added a few 4 GB kits in the 2400 MHz range, so no help there either.

Does anyone have a good suggestion for a working set of 16GB memory modules WHICH I CAN ACTUALLY PURCHASE at this point in time, and preferably above the 1600 MHz mark?

If not, what is your opinion on the allmost-but-not-quite identical G.SKILL F3-17000CL9Q-16GBXM kit?

I don't mind using multiple smaller kits if they will actually work with the R4E, but after having to "discard" a perfectly good kit of 1866 Mhz Kingston HyperX sticks because new systems are so damn picky with these things (not bashing the R4E here, just observing a sad trend for PC hardware anno 2012), I am not about to buy something without doing some research.

Thanks;


- Jesper

[Raja]

Pick a single kit rated at around DDR3-1600 that GSkill has tested with the board - they have a list on their site, too. Since you don't like the prospects of setting things manually, you won't want a kit rated any higher than DDR3-1600 at CAS 11. You might even want to email one of their reps. Tell him you don't want to risk setting anything manually hence you need a kit that will just work with your memory controller. That should help him keep choices within the right band for you.

Also, the reason combining single kits can be prone to issues is:


1) The speed a memory kit can operate at is affected by the load on the bus. If the IC has IO limitations or signal integrity issues at higher densities then the timings and frequency will need to be relaxed to make multiple kits stable. Not a good idea for plug-and-play enthusiasts.

2) The SPD and XMP profile programmed on the memory kit will be for as single kit only, not two or more.

-Raja

[SplatMan_DK]

Thanks Raja, your input is much appreciated.

I don't mind settings parameters when OC'ing. My complaint with the Kingston kit was that it wouldn't even work in my R4E on the JDEC DDR-1333 settings without tweaking (let alone the XMB profiles) 🙂

Can you recommend any 16GB solutions in the 1866-2100 range? I don't mind tweaking them to achieve speeds above DDR-1333 speeds (but I would appreciate a kit which works with the DDR-1333 profile "out of the box" if that is possible).

- Jesper

[Raja]

I can't guarantee any kit won't need adjustment - it might or it might not. It really depends on the ICs on the kit and the SPD.

Why not stick with the Kingston kit and use one of the provided DRAM profiles to make things easy rather than spend more money and risk wasting time going through the whole scenario again?


I also find the willing to tweak and then not tweak situation counter-intuitive. Set the memory up once how you want it to run and be done with it. If that means you need to make a few adjustments, what's the big deal? Even if you have an axe to grind about plug-and-play, there are things about your chosen approach that won't help achieve a major change in the industry. Unless of course you like spending time on such crusades as matter of course.

[SplatMan_DK]

Raja@ASUS wrote:
Why not stick with the Kingston kit and use one of the provided DRAM profiles to make things easy rather than spend more money and risk wasting time going through the whole scenario again?

Since the Kingston kit won't even work at DDR-1333 speeds without tweaking, my assumption was that this kit - for whatever reason - was a bad match for the R4E.

By purchasing another kit listed on the QVL I was looking to save some time - still manually adjusting the settings but perhaps with a less twitchy/sensitive kit 🙂 I would also have thought OC'ing a a later time would be easier with a kit from the QVL.

If you are telling me that it won't make much of a difference; then sure, I'll keep working on the Kingston kit. But my understanding from our previous discussions were, that kits from the QVL were less of a hazzle to work with (though still requiring manual adjustments for OC'ing offcourse).

Raja@ASUS wrote:

I also find the willing to tweak and then not tweak situation counter-intuitive. Set the memory up once how you want it to run and be done with it. If that means you need to make a few adjustments, what's the big deal?

Well, I have done that now, and found a working config for DDR-1333 speeds. Problem is, as soon as I start OC'ing the CPU, I get lots of failures on the RAM as well, and have to re-align the settings once again.

While that situation is unlikely to go completely away with a new kit, I was hoping a kit from the QVL would be less sensitive and easier to work with.

My current kingston kit will fail with even the slightest changes in settings, when fittet in the R4E.

When used in my older Core2Quad EE rig, (an older DELL-branded XFX with nVidia 790i chipset) it runs fine, at slightly overclocked speeds (1965).

Raja@ASUS wrote:
Even if you have an axe to grind about plug-and-play, there are things about your chosen approach that won't help achieve a major change in the industry. Unless of course you like spending time on such crusades as matter of course.

Naaah, the crusades can wait. I am a bit dissapointed things don't "just work" with the DDR-1333 settings, but nothing a cup of coffee and a cognac can't solve. I'll get over it. And your previous posts have also broadened my understanding of the issues involved, so for now I'll settle for "something that works".

I assumed a new memory kit listed on the QVL was the best route to that end.

🙂

- Jesper

[Raja]

Maybe look at the GSkill Ripjaw-Z series then. I have their 16GB 2133 kit in my system. There is a Hynix profile in the BIOS that will make tweaking that kit a lot easier. Can't guarantee all CPUs will do 2133 unconditionally, though.


Does the XMP profile on your Kingston kit change Command Rate or Command Mode to 2? If not, do it manually. If it does, it's just one of those kits with very little overclocking margin.

[SplatMan_DK]

Raja@ASUS wrote:
Maybe look at the GSkill Ripjaw-Z series then. I have their 16GB 2133 kit in my system. There is a Hynix profile in the BIOS that will make tweaking that kit a lot easier. Can't guarantee all CPUs will do 2133 unconditionally, though.

Will do. Thanks 🙂

What is the difference betweekn G.SKILL's Z and X series? The X series seems a lot easier to buy, while the Z series is less common?

I also understood from your previous posts that I may simply have a less-than-ideal 3960x which I can't do a lot to change (short of replacing it which seems prohibitively expensive).

Raja@ASUS wrote:

Does the XMP profile on your Kingston kit change Command Rate or Command Mode to 2? If not, do it manually. If it does, it's just one of those kits with very little overclocking margin.

It doesn't, but I set it manually. The profile is also off one a few timings when read from the XMP profile - oddly the numbers inserted into the BIOS when reading for example the DDR-1600 profile is not with the same numbers as spec'ed by Kingston. If I use the BIOS tool function to manually read the XMP profiles, the numbers are an exact match to the Kingston settings - but they are not used 100% when the RAM is auto-adjusted...

I also have to change the Rampage Tweak mode to 1 for the system to work (using the XMP profiles sets it to 2).

And may I just add that it is a pain in the butt that the BIOS does not use the same names for all the RAM timing parameters in the different screens? When reading the profiles with the Tool function, all I get are 3-4 letter abbreviations. When I go to the actual setting screen to tweak them, all the parameter names are different (full names, and no abbreviations). I had to google each and every parameter in order to be sure I had set the timings right...

- Jesper

[Raja]

The BIOS names will be those supplied by Intel for all the commonly used timings. Some are abbrievated differently and it's part of the learning process. Some companies state the whole name and others don't. For example, tCCD can be written as CAS-to-CAS delay. Depends on the vendor. Learning about memory isn't trivial and it can take a while to get a grip on things.

If you enter the XMP profile timings manually into the DRAM timing section, they will be locked at those settings and will not move on their own accord.


As for the question about the GSkill kits, maybe check their product pages for the spec'd speeds and compare prices. Usually the "higher priced" kits represent a higher-end range with better binning or ICs. Alternatively, ask GSkill...

-Raja

[SplatMan_DK]

Sounds right. Using both names, perhaps with the ones listed in the XMP specs in a parentheses, may help a lot of users though.

Like:

CAS-to-CAS delay (tCCD)

Right now the Tools screen in the BIOS will list tCCD, and the settings screen will list CAS-to-CAS delay. So its up to the user to match the parameters names.

I'll ask G.SKILL to clarify the difference between their X and Z series. Their website has absolutely nothing about it (though faster kits seemt to be X-series only).

Thanks for your help once again. It really is a pleasure to get some skilled feedback here!

🙂

- Jesper

[Raja]

Check prices and the timings of those kits - that will tell you a story. If the same, then nothing major. If one type is generally priced higher at equivalent or higher speeds or has tighter timings, or a higher overall speed in the range, there's your answer.

There is plenty of memory timing info in the R4E UEFI Guide stickied in this forum also that I'd recommend you spend some time reading. 🙂