Fake boot on Maximus VII Hero!

[kinghmerlin]

Hello, I would like to understand how is it possible that my Maximus VII Hero just turned 2 times test before starting. Thanks!

[HiVizMan]

I would guess this happens after your PSU or power has been completely disconnected.

[kinghmerlin]

It happens after the psu supply has been disconnected. It may be because ram is not certified?

[Raja]

This is to do with certain controllers needing a hard reset and memory training. It is normal for this to happen if AC power is removed from the board.

[meggens]

Hi,

I have the exact same problem, and it is really frustrating. Brand new build:

ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO bios 0904
Club 3D AMD R9 290x
Intel i7 4790k
Corsair Vengeance Pro 8GB 1600
Samsung EVO 120GB SSD
Kingwin LZ-850w PSU

From the moment I build this PC I've experience a double boot before POST. This only happends when starting the PC from a cold boot.
Restarts or shutdown (but leave the PSU on) wont cause a double boot before post.

What happends is this:

- PSU is off
- Switch PSU on
- ASUS Maximus VII ROG leds turn on
- Turn on the PC (using the on button on the MB)
- PC turns on and off in a split second. QCode 00 - then something unreadable - then 00 again.
- PC turns on again, QCodes running. 2 seconds later Power down.
- PC turns on again, system beep and everything runs fine.

This is with stock BIOS to default. Tried multiple BIOS versions.
I also discovered that if I clear the CMOS with the button and then power down the PSU, power on the PSU the system starts instantly from a cold boot. The moment I enter the BIOS and save and exit or discard and exit (without changing anything in the BIOS) the double boot comes back.

Also when I remove the battery of the MB the computer starts instantly from cold boot, but prompts me to enter the BIOS every time. However, the double boot does not occur.

I Contacted ASUS techdesk and they told me this should not happen with the BIOS set to default. Below I post the entire contact with ASUS.
An RMA request has allready been made with the vendor, but I much rather solve/clear this issue without having to RMA the MB.

Response from ASUS tech desk
---------------------------------------------------
Hello ASUS,

Recently I build my computer with the components mentioned above.

I have a question regarding the Motherboard ASUS Maximus VII hero.

When I start the computer from a cold boot (meaning just turned on the power switch
of the PSU) the system turns on and off in less then a second.

Then it turns on again for about 2 seconds, and turns off again.

The third attempt the system turns on normally to POST.

When I turn off my computer and leave the PSU switch on this sequence won't
happen.

It only happends when the motherboard has no power (all ROG leds are off).

I like to be able to turn off the power completely because otherwise the leds stay on
even though the computer is off.

But if I do that the system reboots two times before it boots the POST normally.

Is this normal behaviour? Or is something wrong with the MB? I have the latest BIOS
installed, and the XMP profile 1 enabled for the 1600mhz ram.

But resetting the BIOS to default did not help either. Also another PSU, different RAM not
working.

Best Regards,
-----------------
Thank you for your e-mail.

We're sorry to hear that you're experiencing problems with your system.

In this case it's advisable to install the latest BIOS version.
You can find the latest BIOS version on the website below.

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_VII_HERO/HelpDesk_Download/

After installing the latest BIOS, it's advisable to reset the CMOS.
You can find instructions for resetting the CMOS in the manual of the motherboard.
On your motherbaord there is a clear CMOS button that you can press to reset the
CMOS.

I hope to have informed you sufficiently.

Kind regards,

Lesley Jordan van Oostenrijk
ASUS TSD
---------------
Hello Lesley,

I allready have the latest BIOS installed. MAXIMUS VII HERO BIOS 0904.
And I did a clear CMOS by pressing the button. It did not help.

My question is: Is the double boot normal behaviour of the motherboard when
starting the PC from cold? It does not do it when the PSU keeps power on the MB.

Best Regards,
--------------
Thank you for your e-mail.

This is not normal behaviour for the computer on stock settings, the PC should start
up immediately regardless if it's cold or not.

Please check the following:

- Is the system overclocked? If so, then you might encounter problems with booting
for the first time.
The system will require more power thus having a delay on startup.
Please test the system on stock settings.

- The memory is overclocked or the timings are incorrect, please check the website
of the manufacturer if the memory is compatible and what timings should be used.

- The PSU might not be Haswell compatible, check the following website for a list
with compatible PSU's.
http://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list

I hope to have informed you sufficiently.

Kind regards,

Lesley Jordan van Oostenrijk
ASUS TSD
-------------
Hi Lesley,

My system is not overclocked. I had this issue from the moment I build the PC.

On stock BIOS settings I get a double boot.
If I turn on the PC from a cold boot then pc goes on for a slit second, and turns off. I
can't read the qcode since it goes that fast. Then the system turns on and everything
runs fine.

When I enable the XMP profile 1 in the BIOS to get my Corsair Vengeance Pro Ram to
run at 1600Mhz my system does a double boot.

Same as on stock settings the system turns on for a split second and turns off. Then
it turns on for 2 seconds, and turns off again. Then it turns on and runs fine. I've tried
different BIOS versions, but all are the same.

My PSU is not listed in the Haswell PSU compatibility list, but reading that list it only
concerns waking up from sleep state 7 of the CPU. I don't have sleepstate C7
enabled in the BIOS. My PSU is a Kingwin LZ-850w with 6x 12v rails. But I also tried a
600w PSU, but it did the exact same thing.

Again it only happends at cold boot. When restarting, entering a sleep state, turn off
pc without disconnecting power does not trigger the double boot sequence.

One thing I did notice. When I disable the ROG leds in the BIOS and turn off the PC
but keep the PSU switch on, the leds stay off. But when I switch the PSU switch off
and the on again the ROG leds turn on. If I then start the PC it does a double boot, and
the ROG leds turn off.

It looks like the MB forgets the BIOS settings when the power is totally cut or
something like that. Like it needs to have a bit of power to remember the BIOS
settings.

Should I RMA this MB? I've read serveral forums where people have the exact same
problem. Some of them think this has to do with the memory training or something
like that.

Best Regards,
------------------
Thank you for your e-mail.

If the system is on stocksettings and the problem persists, then it's advisable to apply the motherboard for repair at your vendor.

They will be able to test the motherboard.
If they find a problem with the motherboard, they will apply it for repair at the supplier.
Repair and warranty applications can only be processed by the vendor, therefor it's not possible to apply the motherboard for repair directly at Asus.

I hope to have informed you sufficiently.

Kind regards,

Lesley Jordan van Oostenrijk
ASUS TSD
------------------------
Hello Lesley,

I tried to disconnect all extra hardware, GPU, HDD's, Fans, Front panel etc. Then started the pc only with the MB, CPU and RAM, and the double boot still happend.
Then I tried resocketing the CPU, and the system started with 1 attempt. The double boot did not happen. The BIOS gave me a message a new CPU was detected and I had to enter the BIOS so I did.

I saved the settings without changing anything. The system rebooted, and went to BIOS again because I had no HDD's attached.
Then I cut the power of the PSU and put the power back on after the ROG leds went off. Then the system started for a split second and turned off again, and a second later it turned on again. So the double boot was back again.

Found out that if I resocket the CPU the double boot did not occur, but as soon as I enter BIOS and cut the power the double boot was back.
I also found out that if I clear the CMOS of the MB the double boot issue is gone as well, and as long as I dont enter the BIOS it stays gone, but as soon as I enter the BIOS and exit the BIOS without changing anything the double boot is back again.

When I change anything in the BIOS, no matter what setting and save the BIOS I get the tripple boot sequence.

This is really strange, and I will contact the store for an RMA.

Thanks for the help.

Best Regards,

[Praz]

meggens wrote:
I have the exact same problem, and it is really frustrating.

Hello

This is not a problem. As Raja wrote above the double boot after power has been removed is normal and has been this way for several generations of Intel boards.

[meggens]

Why is this not mentioned in the manual, or can't I find anything mentioned about this on the Internet? Only people who experience the same thing and trying to find a solution. I've also found other people who have the same MB and don't have this problem.

Thing is. I don't want to keep power on my PSU because the MB leds stay on which I find strange. Is there a way to disable the double boot in the BIOS?
Also why is the double boot not happening when I resocket the CPU or when I clear the CMOS or remove the battery.

The system then boots instantly from a cold state.

I'm still a bit skeptical about this.

[Raja]

1) Likely the person that wrote the manual did not account for the disturbance or paranoia a double-BOOT can cause.

2) Training parameters are stored in NVRAM - so CPU does not need to be in the socket. The settings applied at CPU change, battery removal or CMOS clear revert to safe (training for such situations is easy and parameters are chipset defaults which don't require a "double latch" to apply).

3) In short, the double BOOTs are present because they have to be - not because we do it on purpose to nark users. Sorry if it bothers you but nothing can be done about the way certain things have to work. If we try and circumvent this, bad things can happen. Those being, inability to post at overclocked settings from AC power cycle, instability and or some devices not being picked up (USB, onboard controllers). The former two need an essay to explain and require the user has a background in electronics, understanding of digital systems and signal integrity. Not easy to explain in a way that makes sense to the masses.

I'll cite one crude example. During development of one platform we found certain CPUs would not POST from power cycle if certain parameters were set. Our only option to get the CPUs to POST was to either force the end user to load a default profile at each AC power cycle, then go back into UEFI and apply the OC (after which there would be a double-cycle anyway) or to allow the system to double cycle. While both are a pain in the proverbial backside, it's obvious which we had to choose. It's situations like these and how the chipset works with certain embedded technologies that create problems.

We use dedicated micro-controllers with custom coding to get around as much as we can, to make user experience seamless. There is however only so much we can do.


4) Certain LEDs may stay lit in standby mode they cannot be switched off. Would require GPIOs on all of them (or groups and there are no such GPIOs present for this on the board) - increasing costs which most people are no longer willing to pay given market competition. I get users complaining of $5 differences now. When you tell them its due to feature x or y - many don't want to pay the additional fee.

You can try ErP - that will shut off power to certain areas of the board in standby BUT it will also give need for double POST, which is what you are trying to avoid. Standby power being removed from certain controllers means they have to be double-pumped on restart.

You can try disabling as many unused devices on the board as possible and seing how that helps. If not, not much you can do.

There is a cheap fix for LED light (nasty as it sounds): a piece of black tape over the "offending" LED works for some..

[meggens]

Hi Raja,

Thanks for the explanation. I'ts not like certain LEDs stay lit when the PC is off. All the LEDs of the VII Hero stay lid. Including the ROG leds keep slow fading on and off, the red LED strip across the MB stays lit, and ofcourse the Power and Reset buttons.



So you're basically telling me I should accept this, or deal with a double boot if I cut the power to the PSU.

Still find it kind of strange that the other ASUS employee told me this double boot on default BIOS is not normal and told me to RMA the board.

I understand your explanation of needing a double boot to check if there is an OC to apply, but I don't have an OC set in the BIOS and it still double boots.

[Raja]

Hi,

1) Yeah in your situation - if the lights are that annoying you've gotta make the choice between not having the board on display, or turning the PSU off. Some of the ROG lights may have a control feature in UEFI under ROG effects - not sure if complete "off" is on offer on Hero/Gene/Ranger. Either way, it might not be all onboard LEDs.

I might be able to push for an all-off option via a single GPIO (not sure what's possible) in future boards but not on these current models ( the upcoming M7F has the option), as it requires hardware to do. Then we come back to cost again as well.

2) The support guys are not necessarily clued up on how everything works. Believe it or not, it is monumentally difficult to find people with a lot of nous for in-depth support. Most of the folks at all companies these days are okay for processing 1st line stuff but not the tech heavy stuff. I guess that's why the forum exists to an extent.. We are of course limited in number here too.