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UEFI GOP Fast Boot update

X-ROG
Level 15
Hi All,

We've just had a meeting today to get the latest info for you all. It's quite a complicated situation so please bare with me.

1) Not every motherboard UEFI BIOS is compatible. ASUS will only be qualifying it's own motherboards. Currently these are fully compatible with UEFI Fast Boot Mode:

- Intel 7 Series or later
- Intel X79 Series updated to Win8 BIOS (3xxx)
- Intel H61 Series R2.0 or later
- AMD R2.0 series or later

UEFI is not a uniform standard. There is Gen 1 and Gen 2. Only Gen 2 is compatible with Win8 Fast Boot and has to have the BIOS code re-written from the ground up, which is why even if your board has "UEFI" and is older than on the list it won't work with Win8's Fast Boot sorry. It must have a Win8 certified UEFI BIOS.

All our GPU UEFI BIOS' are dual mode (hybrid). We are currently testing our legacy and 1st Gen UEFI boards to see which are compatible and will fall back to booting from the legacy BIOS code until you update to a Win8/2nd Gen UEFI board. We cannot guarantee other manufacturer boards will fall back correctly, causing no POST or no display output.

GOOD NEWS!:
We have tested our Hybrid BIOS on a range of Intel and AMD motherboards ranging back 4-5 years and the Hybrid fall-back function works perfectly in all cases! That means even if you have older ASUS motherboards with no UEFI even, you can still install the Hybrid UEFI GPU BIOS and it will automatically fall-back to legacy mode!

EDIT: Updated this part 26th Feb
EDIT2: 2nd update 28th Feb.

3) As you may know we don't just make one GTX 680, for example, in fact there are 12 different versions, which all have different BIOS'. As you can imagine, if you flash the wrong BIOS your card will not work. Multiply this by several products and that's many, many BIOS'. The chance of getting it wrong is unacceptably high when as codes vary by small amounts.

However, despite Nvidia's suggestion and the large potential for incompatibility causing no POST, we are still going to introduce UEFI GPU BIOS' under condition of the clear warnings above. Starting first with the GTX 680 in the next few weeks we will be providing a very detailed guide on how to check your GPU version and how to upgrade the VBIOS. The on evaluation of success of that (and any modification of the guide) we will then add GTX 670, 660 Ti. This is exclusive to the high-end GPUs and ROG forums for now.

4) During April we will have a more public release of an automated tool for checking compatibility and updating the VBIOS if it detects all is OK. Should this tool not work for you, yet you are convinced your PC is compatible, you can use the guide we provided.

Hope this helps everyone understand the next month-to-6 weeks better 🙂
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52 REPLIES 52

Rodent
Level 7
Some things do not make sense to me, would someone clarify the following.

MarshallR@ASUS wrote:
All our GPU UEFI BIOS' are dual mode (hybrid).

Isn't that the same for all manufacturers? I would think it would stay that way until sometime after the release of UEFI 3 when CSM will no longer be an option.


MarshallR@ASUS wrote:
That means even if you have older ASUS motherboards with no UEFI even, you can still install the Hybrid UEFI GPU BIOS and it will automatically fall-back to legacy mode!

If the mainboard is legacy only, no UEFI, then how would UEFI graphics be selected in the first place and isn't legacy the default mainboard selection for hybrid cards? In this case a cmos reset should select legacy VBIOS, no? Wouldn't "fall-back" be a feature of selecting UEFI graphics, having it fail, then the mainboard BIOS switching to legacy option ROM?


MarshallR@ASUS wrote:
Only GTX 600/HD 7000 are supported because all partners require support from Nvidia/AMD to give part of the code and support. As such, no partner will be releasing UEFI BIOS for GPU in older generations. Like all things, if you want the latest spec you have to buy the latest tech 😉


Then why does Powercolor have UEFI VBIOS for AMD HD6450 and HD5450 cards as well as HD7000? Why does Gigabyte have publicly downloadable VBIOS updates for some HD6000 cards and even an HD5000 card?

Anything known about this ASUS GTX670-DC2OG-2GD5 VBIOS with GOP UEFI driver dated mid August?
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/128444/Asus.GTX670.2048.120911.html

Thanks.

Nodens
Level 16
Rodent wrote:
Some things do not make sense to me, would someone clarify the following.


Sure:)


Isn't that the same for all manufacturers? I would think it would stay that way until sometime after the release of UEFI 3 when CSM will no longer be an option.


No it's not. There is no room for 2 VBIOS versions in the SPI flash. You either flash one or the other. So if you flash the card with UEFI GOP and the motherboard doesn't support it then you simply can't use the card at all. That's what all the fuss is about. People mistakenly flash cards with UEFI GOP when it's not supported by their boards ending up with a bricked system.
ASUS is making a special VBIOS that automatically detects if your board supports UEFI GOP and if it doesn't it defaults on loading legacy VBIOS code. This is an ASUS thing. (They do it by merging both versions..it's probably a patented method).


If the mainboard is legacy only, no UEFI, then how would UEFI graphics be selected in the first place and isn't legacy the default mainboard selection for hybrid cards? In this case a cmos reset should select legacy VBIOS, no? Wouldn't "fall-back" be a feature of selecting UEFI graphics, having it fail, then the mainboard BIOS switching to legacy option ROM?


That would be the case if the cards featured both. But they don't. So what happens on a legacy-only board is that nothing gets loaded and the system can not boot.
CMOS can not help you as the video card NO LONGER has a legacy BIOS to use.
(For example, the EVGA cards I have in my signature are both flashed with EVGA UEGI GOP. They don't have a legacy Video BIOS anymore so they won't boot on any machine without a UEFI that follows the 2nd version of the specification).


Then why does Powercolor have UEFI VBIOS for AMD HD6450 and HD5450 cards as well as HD7000? Why does Gigabyte have publicly downloadable VBIOS updates for some HD6000 cards and even an HD5000 card?


We're talking about nVIDIA cards. AMD cards can have both versions installed by default so this issue does not apply to those cards. This is specifically for nVIDIA cards.


Anything known about this ASUS GTX670-DC2OG-2GD5 VBIOS with GOP UEFI driver dated mid August?
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/128444/Asus.GTX670.2048.120911.html


Where did you see that this card has a UEFI GOP? I can see nothing of the sort.
RAMPAGE Windows 8/7 UEFI Installation Guide - Patched OROM for TRIM in RAID - Patched UEFI GOP Updater Tool - ASUS OEM License Restorer
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't!

RealBench Developer.

Nodens wrote:
We're talking about nVIDIA cards. AMD cards can have both versions installed by default so this issue does not apply to those cards. This is specifically for nVIDIA cards.


Our Nvidia GOP BIOS are hybrid BIOS'.

Thanks Nodens, that helps. My bad, I was under the impression all UEFI VBIOS for now were going to be hybrid type only and the reason for no support on 500 series for example was due to there not being enough ROM space for a "hybrid implementation". So far all i have seen is hybrid VBIOS. I would be very interested in seeing a UEFI only VBIOS, especially the header info. If you know of a link it would be much appreciated.


I think everyone is going to have their own preferences with what they want, for me I would prefer a hybrid VBIOS so I can still run the occasional real DOS session or boot backup software without too much hassle, when needed, while hopefully the UEFI side might bring some usefulness other than faster booting (secure boot for those that want it ;)), such as pre OS boot UEFI applications in the future.


Nodens wrote:
Where did you see that this card has a UEFI GOP? I can see nothing of the sort.


It is not evident by the description alone but if you download the image you will see the UEFI ROM starting at offset 0xF600. This contains the 64-bit UEFI Nvidia driver xx.xx.xx.xx.xx, version 0x1000D, dated 14 August 2012. Maybe it is an early beta, idk, hence my question.

Rodent wrote:
Thanks Nodens, that helps. My bad, I was under the impression all UEFI VBIOS for now were going to be hybrid type only and the reason for no support on 500 series for example was due to there not being enough ROM space for a "hybrid implementation". So far all i have seen is hybrid VBIOS. I would be very interested in seeing a UEFI only VBIOS, especially the header info. If you know of a link it would be much appreciated.


While I have been working a lot with UEFI spec 2.3.1 stuff lately, I never actually checked these ROM images (had no reason until now heh). I do not know about the Fermi SPI flash but I do know that there's no space on the Kepler cards either for dual images. The Hybrid implementation that Asus will offer (and the ones you've already seen--on the AMD cards maybe? Or someone else has released Hybrid as well?) are probably made by crafting a special a header that utilizes code pockets and common parts of the code (at least that's the only way I can think when trying to figure out how I'd do it myself ;p)
I willl send you a PM with a UEFI GOP only sample ROM to examine (it's not for ASUS cards so ppl don't spam PM me with requests. I don't have ASUS UEFI GOP).


I think everyone is going to have their own preferences with what they want, for me I would prefer a hybrid VBIOS so I can still run the occasional real DOS session or boot backup software without too much hassle, when needed, while hopefully the UEFI side might bring some usefulness other than faster booting (secure boot for those that want it ;)), such as pre OS boot UEFI applications in the future.


Of course everyone is going to prefer a hybrid VBIOS but I was under the impression that ASUS is the only one that will be offering a hybrid solution for nvidia cards? Let me know if that is not the case.
Also you caught me slightly off guard with this statement: "so I can still run the occasional real DOS session". I have not checked the UEFI GOP specification and I automatically assumed that it would be fully backwards compatible with BIOS calls. Is it really that real mode is not supported anymore or are you just assuming the contrary of what I did? 😛


]
It is not evident by the description alone but if you download the image you will see the UEFI ROM starting at offset 0xF600. This contains the 64-bit UEFI Nvidia driver xx.xx.xx.xx.xx, version 0x1000D, dated 14 August 2012. Maybe it is an early beta, idk, hence my question.


This sounds very weird because as far as I knew there were absolutely no (nvidia at least -- not sure on AMD) cards for sale that featured a UEFI GOP by default. I will have to check it out..

EDIT: On a quick first inspection it seems that you are right and with GOP you can only access video cards via UEFI Protocols and no Interrupts/VBE/VGA BIOS extensions...Hmr:( Perhaps a wrapper driver would be useful for when legacy Video BIOS goes extinct?
RAMPAGE Windows 8/7 UEFI Installation Guide - Patched OROM for TRIM in RAID - Patched UEFI GOP Updater Tool - ASUS OEM License Restorer
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't!

RealBench Developer.

Nodens, your comments confuse me. Most uefi gop bios I find on techpowerup e.g. for gtx670 are about twice the size compared to non-uefi vbios(about 160kb vs 90kb). Therefore, hybrid uefi GOP vbios is no special ASUS patented thingy. These 160kb vbios easly fit in each Kepler card. As you might have read I use myself an MSI based hybrid vbios on my ASUS card.

Terence_13 wrote:
Nodens, your comments confuse me. Most uefi gop bios I find on techpowerup e.g. for gtx670 are about twice the size compared to non-uefi vbios(about 160kb vs 90kb). Therefore, hybrid uefi GOP vbios is no special ASUS patented thingy. These 160kb vbios easly fit in each Kepler card. As you might have read I use myself an MSI based hybrid vbios on my ASUS card.


You seem to be confusing hybrid with dual. There are 3 ways you can implement UEFI GOP (4 if you cound one that needs extra hardware support):

1) UEFI GOP only.
2) BIOS with separate GOP driver and legacy VGA BIOS into a single image (Dual BIOS).
3) Merge GOP driver with legacy VGA BIOS into a single OROM (Hybrid).
----------
4) Dual BIOS with a switch (like the dual bios on Rampage boards). Requires extra hardware support (eg 2 SPI flash chips+switch/jumper/whatever).

Solution 1. Is the problematic one that causes bricks.
Solution 2. This is the one not feasable due to not enough space in the SPI flash.
Solution 3. This is the Hybrid solution that ASUS will be offering. This is an ASUS implementation and if others are doing the same thing they are doing it on their own way. This is why ASUS can not guarantee that their hybrid solution will work with other manufacturer's boards.


The EVGA one I have on my cards falls into category 1. I have not seen the MSI one but I assume it is also not hybrid (3) because I have not heard of a hybrid solution other than ASUS yet. Still I may be wrong on this one as I haven't actually examined them myself.

Twice the size means nothing. For example GOP drivers include certificates for signature enforcement at the end of the image. Those take quite a bit of space on their own.. Thinking that they're hybrid because they're twice the size is wrong. Have you actually booted your card on a legacy BIOS rig?

The EVGA one I dumped from my cards is 179kb (which is the maximum size of the OROM because the entire thing is dumped) yet it's UEFI GOP only and won't boot on my linux server box or my AMD beta-test rig.

On a sidenote: Considering a lot of the VBIOS you can find online are dumped from cards, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find legacy VBIOS with max_size as well (since it's a bit for bit dump). In fact I just did a search and there you go, 179kb legacy vbios galore:
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/index.php?page=1&architecture=&manufacturer=&model=GT+640&interfa...
RAMPAGE Windows 8/7 UEFI Installation Guide - Patched OROM for TRIM in RAID - Patched UEFI GOP Updater Tool - ASUS OEM License Restorer
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't!

RealBench Developer.

Seithan
Level 7
Is the Z68 chipset ( i own the Maximus IV GenE/GenZ updated to 3603 11/09/2012) eligible for fast boot?

Seithan wrote:
Is the Z68 chipset ( i own the Maximus IV GenE/GenZ updated to 3603 11/09/2012) eligible for fast boot?


Yes it is:)
RAMPAGE Windows 8/7 UEFI Installation Guide - Patched OROM for TRIM in RAID - Patched UEFI GOP Updater Tool - ASUS OEM License Restorer
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't!

RealBench Developer.

Seithan wrote:
Is the Z68 chipset ( i own the Maximus IV GenE/GenZ updated to 3603 11/09/2012) eligible for fast boot?


No, it's not sorry. Only the boards listed on P1 will Fast Boot. It will be compatible with our GPUs that have hybrid BIOS' though so it won't fail at least.