Z790 ProArt Creator Re-Overclocking after Bios 2602 update on I9-13900K

[Pierre1850]

PLEASE SEE LAST MY LAST REPLY FOLLOWUP FOR NEWS >>
I guys,
For your info, as with BIOS 2602 update, all settings erased to factory default. I retuned it instead of trying to reload to 1803 configuration file (if it works). I'm running 4x16GB DDR5 and was at 6400MHz with G.Skill 7200 CL34-45-45-115 before update. I can't tell if I had MemTest error since this stable setup I got as best performances with 28.3 GB/sec CPU-Mem troughtput.

Now, I got at best 2-3 error on Bit11 at 3 adresses at 6000MHz with 1.4V settings on memory voltage. I get back to 5600MHz CL-32-34-34-95 with 28.0 GB/s settings based on sequence delays respect to nominal specs with a little margin for Windows stomach. Conclusion: I got to reduce frequency clock with these One Year settings. Is it Bios update in cause or degratation ? It seems to be a motherboard quality limitation as QVL indicated 6800MHz limit for 32GB. On ASUS it shows that this motherboard can withstand 7200MHz in OC. In that time, 7200MHz was not yet on the market, so I took a chance ProArt will fit with specifications.

I'm using ASUS Overclock settings instead of Intel's Default Settings as initial settings before doing OC manually. My Windows 11 shows unstablility when I'm overclocking CPU at stable memory limit where I loose some functions as Firefox crash, and some applications behaviors.

[achugh · Accepted solution]

Hi @Pierre1850 typically it is best to do any overclocking of CPU with no overclocking of memory. Once your CPU overclock is stable then you overclock memory.

It is recommended that your CLEAR CMOS after updating to the newer BIOS version like you did and then use Intel Profiles. The ASUS OC profile is not as stable as it was on the older BIOS. You will find a better success with Intel Profile.

Once you are stable again with Intel Profile then you can perform memory overclocking using XMP Profiles.

I hope this information helps you get back to a stable state.

[Pierre1850]

Thanks a lot for the hint. I'll try it right tonight and see results. I log on Excel all test results history. Have a good night.

[Pierre1850]

Follow Up: After loading default's settings (mem @ 4200MHz) and set Bios AI Overclock with Intel's Defaut (Extreme Mode On) PC crashed after 30/45 min with Excel, Outlook and Firefox. Some software custom settings was changed after boot. I changed CPU OC Profile to Performances. CPU was clocking 5600-6000GHz on CPU-Z (max is 5800 according to specs). Now I optimized OC with Intel XTU and top list P-Cores are on 60X. I stay at these conditions for a while.

[Pierre1850]

Follow up: I changed OC BIOS setting for Performances. Then In XTU, set P-Core to 58x (+2) and E-Core to 43x (-1) to correspond to Intel I9-13900K official specs listed on web site. Still at VVD 1.1V, 4200MHz and multiplier at 100x (no adjustment to 99.5x for dephasing), and turbo features enable and current limitation On. Still stable after almost 12 hrs. CPU Clock is running up to 5.8 GHz.

[Pierre1850]

Follow up: I'm now at 5600MHz (top of non OC mem xfers Intel) and results are better: CL28-32-32-89 @1.4V, and I get a memory latency ML= 17.472ns and 27.8 GB/sec. Last year test got 27.0 GB/sec in XMP1 overclocking (I was not at my actual knowledge). Now with CL26-31-31-89 at 28.1GB/s and ML=17.063ns is my best stable test at this frequency after this new approach suggested by Achug, thanks again to him. Next: 5800MHz and up.

This memory gives sequential timing delays @7200MHz CL34-45-45-115 of tCL: 9.44ns, tRCD: 12.5ns, tRP:12.5ns, tRAS: 31.94ns. Extensive memory timings can goes according to my tests, to +0.5 to -1.5 ns approx. from theses delays at other frequencies. Too low makes boot in safe mode. 7200MHz clock period is 0.278ns, so other frequencies period multiplied by cycles timings changes must enter in the acceptables references delays. The tighter change of tRAS make memory troughtput drop a little bit as 0.1GB/s usually. No interest to change it for now.

[Pierre1850]

Follow up: My last stable test is at 5800MHz (64GB/s G. Skill 7200MHz 1.4V CL34-45-45-115) and got 28.3 GB/sec with CL28-33-33-92. Now the 6000MHz with CL-28-34-34-92 failed. So I when to Auto Timings at CL50-50-50-95 and still fail. MemTest86 10.0 Free in multiple cores and Test 10 and 13 added give 18 errors before ending 4th pass (stopped at 91%). VDD/VDDQ, DMIC where increased at 1.41V.

Question: With auto timing, is it mean that I reached the frequency limit ? or I can change some deep level parameters ? Thanks

[achugh · Accepted solution]

Hi @Pierre1850 I recommend that you spend some time reading the following information.

https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus-maximus-z790-extreme-and-intel-i9-13900k-a-tuning-guide-for-b... - How to overclock and test your CPU

https://www.overclock.net/threads/comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.1630388/?post_id=26096937&... - How overclock your memory. While this is not meant for DDR5 memory most of the concepts are still the same. Lot of basic information is still the same. Maybe someone else may know a proper DDR5 page with better details.

Since I do not have your exact board, I cannot tell you what level of memory timing information you can change/control on your board. Once you read the 2nd link above you can see what you and cannot change to give it a try. In short, you can technically try additional things but if you are stable at 5800 MT/s; have you tried XMP II or XMP I or Tweaked XMP to see if these profiles give you higher speeds? Are you mixing kits i.e. did you purchase 2 different memory boxes each containing 2 sticks of 16GB or did you purchase 1 box containing 4 sticks of 16GB each?

[Pierre1850]

Thanks very much ! will test XMP1/2/3 after manual tests.  I'm recording all best performance I can have each 200MHz frequency increase and corresponding memory throughtput. I got 28.3GB/s 6000MHz at CL-30-35-35-96 with VVD/Q at 1.28V. Dropping voltage reduce MemTest errors until no more. I'm still in CPU OC Intel's Default and all auto except timings and VVD/Q voltage. MCV is in auto. Now I'm testing at 6200MHz at CL-52-52-52-98 (Auto) to see if it pass the frequency test VVD/Q at V1.26V. I'll increase that way until nothing's more to do and get the frequency limit in these conditions. I'm playing with rising edge and falling edge of bit pulses with a fewer possible clock cycles of spare.

I bought 2 x (2x16) memory kits has 4x16 were not availaible. So last year has XMP3 did not works, I tested each memory once at time on slot A (1x16GB) and I got a few errors at 7200MHz, but at 7000MHz is was ok for three and one did not pass 6600MHz frequency. So I returned this pair to G Skill and new ones where topped at 7000MHz too. So I installed them with lowest to heighest performance DDR5 module from distance to CPU order. Once at 64GB, performance can't reach the sames at 32 GB.

ASUS ProArt specs indicates it can get 7200MHz Memory, and OVL limit at 6000MHz. I saw on Overclocking Show on the net a team reached 6800MHz but I'm not sure if they were at 32 or 64 GB, more probably 32. So, I'm asking myself if ASUS did not tested over 6000MHz just because when they produced their pamphelt of the product, faster memory was not just ready on the market and motherboard can support higher frequency in reality. I nerver founded an answer to this question. I'm answering myself by these tests.

Thanks you again very much for the info, I'll get it and see what more I can do.

[achugh · Accepted solution]

Mixing kits is not supported. Please read https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/technologies-explained/memory-kits-overclocking-and-what-you-may-not-k... which explains why.

At a very high level, the memory speed is dictated by your IMC (Integrated Memory Chip) located inside your CPU (basically your CPU plays a big role in OC), the quality of your board (higher cost boards have higher support for over clocking of memory and other things), and your memory (typically you are not going to be able to go much over the rated speed).

When you mix kits even if they are from the same brand and same model number the silicon used by the kit has variance and hence the timing information is slightly different. This is where you can now only run at the timings that work with 2 kits. This timing is most likely going to be slower than the rated speed.

On top of the mixing memory, Intel defined the memory speeds based on how many sticks you are using. Also see https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel-700-600-series/memory-problems-on-rog-maximus-z790-hero/m-p/1050... post for the Intel table.

Because you are trying to mix kits, look at the serial number of your sticks. Make sure the matching serial numbers are in A2, B2 slot and your 2nd matching serial numbers are in A1, B1 slot. It will help the AUTO routines to find the timing information that works better. If this approach does not help then swap to matching serial numbers in A1, A2 slot and the other matching serial number in B1, B2 slot and give this a try. Intel CPUs these days have DUAL memory architecture and since mixing kits is not supported I am not sure if you will get better stability with your kits in 1st configuration or 2nd configuration.