cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Maximus Z690 and Alder Lake: Modern CPU’s require Modern Overclocking Solutions

Falkentyne
Level 12
Asus Z690, Maximus series and Alder Lake: The best tools for the best FPS.

First, let me start by thanking Shamino @ ROG Asus for allowing me and the other testers to put this exciting new hardware through its paces and experiment with the new overclocking features and architecture changes, and for the hard work to get these boards running well with these new features.

Also I need to thank cstkl1 and RobertoSampiao for helping me write this. Without their help, I would never have been able to do this.
And VERY BIG thank you to Skatterbencher for his excellent, precise, clear cut youtube videos on explaining these features and helping me with this guide.

Disclaimer ! These settings and methods were tested on *ENGINEERING* Qualification Sample CPU's ("QS") and
pre-production boards, so it is possible that some features may perform differently, slightly differently
identically, or even not work at all on retail CPU's. While QS samples tend to reflect final retail hardware, there may still be undocumented differences, errata, thermal issues or features that may be present or not present on retail parts.

AVX-512 support is available with Asus boards! Some of you may really love this but I am not sure if AVX512 was intended or QA'd by Intel, VRM limits may not be set for high OCP limits with AVX512. I encountered OCP with AVX512 at 5.2 ghz, so if you encounter it, you can change CPU Current Capacity in Digi+VRM.

To use AVX-512, please disable all of the E-cores. The AVX512 offsets and clipping are available just like they were and described in the Rocket Lake Z590 guide.

*MEMORY STUFF and DDR5*

DDR5 operates in 2x32 bit mode rather than 1x64 bit mode. Power management (PMIC) has also been moved from the motherboard to the memory, so the memory itself manages the voltages.

The new changes to the bank structure means that two sticks of DDR5 are operating in the equivalent of "Quad channel" mode when compared to DDR4. DDR4 and DDR5 memory should no longer be compared on an apples to apples level due to the number of changes.
There are two channels per dimm and two memory controllers on the DDR5 side so the dims operate in quad channel mode for 2 sticks. CAS latency seems to have a lesser effect on latency on DDR5 than 4, for example. Max Trefi can go up to 262k, but there is no noticeable benefit from going higher than 65535, and a lot of risk of increasing stability problems with high heat. TRCD/TRP can now be set separately, focus on these for your overclocks, as well as the subs.

Yeeted tREFI may also risk an instant BSOD when you stop a stress test when the memory heats up or when you use sleep mode.
PMIC defaults to 1.10v for VDD and VDDQ. Some memory modules may want up to 50m-100mv higher VDDQ than VDD when overclocking. A "high voltage" mode allows higher than 1.43v, however this is an actual register toggle within the memory itself. Some modules are not compatible with this register, so enabling it will just reset the voltage back to default, or prevent booting at all. More accurately it uses a target voltage based on 10mv resolution calculation rather than 5mv, which means the real voltage will be much lower than what you think you set, if you are using incompatible sticks.

PMIC voltages's are usually synched together per channel but can be set separately both per channel AND per Dimm. There are three switching rails, VDD, VDDQ and VPP. VCCSA (System Agent) is still there. I have been unable to test changing this as my Micron sticks do not go much higher than 5200 XMP (5600 did work with a lot of difficulty).

Power rails have been simplified on the motherboard. There are two master rails, VCCIA and VCCAUX (sorry I don’t remember the exact names). IA rail controls Vcore and vGPU. AUX rail controls everything else (SA, FIVR, etc).
PMIC is on the memory which controls the voltage the memory actually runs at (VDDQ, VDD etc).
This is sourced from the motherboard’s 5V supply. As mentioned above, some modules have a high voltage bit which can allow more than 1.435v.

Secure Pmic mode: cannot be adjusted in windows. Allows up to 1.435v. Compatible with all 5mv resolution
OC Pmic: can be adjusted in windows. Can set yeet volts up to 2.070v. 10mv resolution

===================

Some values available in BIOS and should you care:

SPD Hub VLDO (1.8v): Don’t bother
SPD Hub (VDDIO) (1.0v): Don’t bother
Memory VDD voltage (definitely use it. 1.25v+ is good for OC)
Memory VDDQ voltage (1.2.5v+ is good for OC)
Memory VDDP voltage: Don’t bother.
Memory switching freq: not much help.
Memory current capacity: not really needed
System Agent: 1.25v+ (ask cstkl1 about this, there seem to be some issues with high system agent and some memory settings
Memory controller voltage (external): 1.25v+ for OC
Transmitter VDDQ (max to any high limit VDD, VDDQ).

So tl;dr: concern yourself with vdd, vddq, VCCSA, MC VDD, TX VDDQ.

===========
ROG Shamino’s rule of memory voltages:
===========

Typically the higher the density, the lower the V tolerance, eg, V for 4*DR< V for 2*DR
Micron sticks:
SR modules typically can scale with VDDQ>1.35v while VDD may fail training >1.35v. So you may end up running something like 1.35v VDD + 1.435v VDDQ. SR module also like VDDQ to be ~ 50++mv-100mv higher than VDD so try to OV them asynch.

DR modules may have less V tolerance, so something like 1.25v VDD + 1.35v VDDQ will be what you end up maxing out at.
Some micron sticks may end up MORE stable fully loaded than idle. Be careful about idle BSOD’s. This may get worse if you start yeeting tREFI and end up BSOD’ing at the very end of a stress test.

1T Command rate will NOT work.

Hynix sticks:
SR modules typically can scale with VDD>1.3v while VDDQ may not need much over 1.25v. So you may end up running something like 1.35v VDDQ + 1.25v VDDQ. (inverse from what you see on micron) Similar for DR modules.
1.25v MC VDD works well for them. 1T command rate works with these.

Samsung Sticks:
Yes. Don’t need to say more.
Some modules do not like >1.25v Memory controller VDD, while some need it to scale for high frequencies.
You also need to scale the TX VDDQ according to VDD/VDDQ levels. A rule of thumb is to set it to the highest of either your VDD or VDDQ but try to not exceed 1.6v. Sometimes the FIVR rail will trip on you if you do.

Shamino’s rule:

For starters, you can just run 1.25v on both VDD and VDDQ for Hynix, 1.25VDD+1.35VDDQ for Micron, and 1.35VDD+1.35VDDQ for Samsung and let the BIOS decide on the rest for you by leaving them auto. You may also want to start with Asus Memory Presets.

Another strategy worth trying is:
Synch DRAM VDD with MC VDD, Synch TX VDDQ with DRAM VDDQ.
Default Gear mode for DDR5 is Gear 2 (Gear 1 will not work), with POR for 1 dimm per controller being 4800 mhz and 2 dimms per controller being 4000 mhz. The default base to clock ratio for DDR5 is 100:100, and unlike Rocket Lake, the 100:100 and 100:133 ratios seem to perform pretty well.

For the three gear modes (1/2/4), gear 2 requires that the dram ratio be divisible by 2, while gear 4 requires a divider of 4. So 4800 at 100:100 is fine. But 4900 is *NOT* since it’s not dividable by 2 or 4.
Gear 4 may only be worth using at 8000 mhz +.
DRAM Timings:

Use even numbers for TCL and TWCL, odd numbers don’t work.
TRP and TRCD can be individually adjusted. For questions about memory OC please ask cstkl1. I can’t help with memory OC.

Rough Description at Gear2:
Fmax VDD VDDQ TXVDDQ MC VDD SA Able to run CMD Rate 1T
2* Hynix SR 5800 1.3 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 yes
4* Hynix SR 5200 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.25 no
2* Hynix DR 5400 1.3 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 no
4* Hynix SR 4200 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.35 no
2* Micron SR 5600 1.35 1.4 1.4 1.34 1.2 no
4* Micron SR 5200 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 no
2* Micron DR 5400 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.2 no
4* Micron DR 4200 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.35 no
2* Samsung SR 5800 1.435 1.435 1.435 1.34 1.25 yes
4* Samsung SR 5200 1.35 1.35 1.35 1.25 1.25 no

You can definitely get 6000 and beyond, depending on lottery+ running with Hynix or Samsung but mem test stability depends on the IC quality. Watch your memory cooling at higher volts!

Next section: CPU Core OC
807 Views
211 REPLIES 211

BigJohnny
Level 13
Long read but sitting out Alderlake. Waiting on at least Sapphire rapids.

BigJohnny wrote:
Long read but sitting out Alderlake. Waiting on at least Sapphire rapids.


+1 on sitting out on AlderLake,.. going to be interisting next few months as reviews/benchmarks start to shake out. 😄

Hi all. I'm new here so take it a bit slow with me the coming days 🙂

I just got an Samsung 980 Pro disk. Could some of you suggest the best M.2 slots for this nvme ssd. Shall be used as the OS drive with Asus Rog Z690 Apex board. Haven't had much time with this new setup, but from what I know there is two M.2 slots directly on the MB. One on top of the Graphics slots (right below cpu) and one below the Gpu slot. Is there any advantage put it on top M.2 slot or the one below? And if what could that be. Thanks

If I have posted in the wrong thread. Could you then please post the proper links and I can delete this post. Again, thanks

Papusan wrote:
Hi all. I'm new here so take it a bit slow with me the coming days 🙂

I just got an Samsung 980 Pro disk. Could some of you suggest the best M.2 slots for this nvme ssd. Shall be used as the OS drive with Asus Rog Z690 Apex board. Haven't had much time with this new setup, but from what I know there is two M.2 slots directly on the MB. One on top of the Graphics slots (right below cpu) and one below the Gpu slot. Is there any advantage put it on top M.2 slot or the one below? And if what could that be. Thanks

If I have posted in the wrong thread. Could you then please post the proper links and I can delete this post. Again, thanks


Hi Papusan,

The top m.2 on board, afaik is a PCIE 5.0 slot, runs off the CPU and will drop your GPU in the primary PCIE to 8x speed if installed. If Gen 5 PCIE 5.0 NVME drives ever come out, before the PCIE 6.0 spec is released on an upcoming motherboard, that's where it goes for most speed. And to boot windoze at exactly 0.5 seconds faster than a PCIE 4.0 SSD.

I am unsure if the other onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU or off the chipset. I don't have an Apex.
On the Maximus 13 Extreme, the onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU and the Dimm.2 riser card runs off the chipset (won't take anything off the video card).
I don't know if the Apex is the same or not, you will have to look in the motherboard manual.

Falkentyne wrote:
Hi Papusan,

The top m.2 on board, afaik is a PCIE 5.0 slot, runs off the CPU and will drop your GPU in the primary PCIE to 8x speed if installed. If Gen 5 PCIE 5.0 NVME drives ever come out, before the PCIE 6.0 spec is released on an upcoming motherboard, that's where it goes for most speed. And to boot windoze at exactly 0.5 seconds faster than a PCIE 4.0 SSD.

I am unsure if the other onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU or off the chipset. I don't have an Apex.
On the Maximus 13 Extreme, the onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU and the Dimm.2 riser card runs off the chipset (won't take anything off the video card).
I don't know if the Apex is the same or not, you will have to look in the motherboard manual.

Hi bro Falkentyne. Thanks.

Not sure if its correct that the speed of the primary PCIE (GPU) will drop down to 8x if you only use one NVMe drive and put it in the upper MB m.2 _1 slot. It will probably reduce the speed down to 8x speed if I add ssd's in both of the m.2 slots on the board.

92291

Have now put in a single NVMe 4.0 drive for now in the upper m.2 slot. The rest of the drives will most likely be 2.5" drives for storage.

Regarding the coming PCIe 5 ssd's, i can't see much of a gain vs older gen ssd's. Maybe for specific usage but not for the average gamer/computer users. That 0.5 sec or what in improved boot up ain't good enough reason for paying more than needed.

Again, thanks 🙂

Falkentyne wrote:
Hi Papusan,

The top m.2 on board, afaik is a PCIE 5.0 slot, runs off the CPU and will drop your GPU in the primary PCIE to 8x speed if installed. If Gen 5 PCIE 5.0 NVME drives ever come out, before the PCIE 6.0 spec is released on an upcoming motherboard, that's where it goes for most speed. And to boot windoze at exactly 0.5 seconds faster than a PCIE 4.0 SSD.

I am unsure if the other onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU or off the chipset. I don't have an Apex.
On the Maximus 13 Extreme, the onboard m.2 slots run off the CPU and the Dimm.2 riser card runs off the chipset (won't take anything off the video card).
I don't know if the Apex is the same or not, you will have to look in the motherboard manual.


Apex is wired differently than Extreme. There is no M.2 PCIE5 slot on Apex (only 2 slots). They included a card for M.2 PCI5 that goes into one of the pcie 16x slots on the motherboard and make both slots reduced to 8x. Basically, it seems they ignored the dedicated PCIe5 line to the CPU on Apex to make it faster for overclockers.

Also I remember reading in Extreme manual that if you use the m.2 pcie 5, second pci express 16x slot should be empty. Maybe on Apex they just removed the circuits and moved the 1st m.2 slot to that pcie add-on card.*

SK Hynix is so much easyer than Samsung on 4 sticks...
I'll post something if I'll ever success getting a stable PC with 4 sticks 🙂

Hi.

I have a Z690 Maximus Extreme.
It's my first build in many years so I'm not 100% familiar with all the latest stuff. I did a lot of research before I stated but somehow miss the part about the 4 dimms.

I'm currently using Gskill Trident F5-6000U4040 4X16 (2 kits of 16gb)
It runs perfectly stable at 4000Mgz.

I saw in other forum that it is possible to runs stable at 5200 or 5600. But it was on Asus Hero not Extrme.

Any advice?

Thanks

sblantipodi wrote:
SK Hynix is so much easyer than Samsung on 4 sticks...
I'll post something if I'll ever success getting a stable PC with 4 sticks 🙂


I confirm that SK Hynix is the way to go for 4 sticks on Extreme board.
With Samsung I can't run 4.4GHz C36 stable (mixed kit). even with high voltages like 1.435V.

With SK Hynix I need less MC voltage, and with only 1.3V on VDD/VDDQ I can easily run 5.2GHz C36.

but there is an issue that afflict both my Extreme, no matter the memory I use or the OC I use, the problem happen even with default stock settings.

I'm pretty sure that Armoury Crate + Corsair iCue creates the "hang on boot" problem on my Asu Extreme board.


How to reproduce.

- Run cinebench 10 times for 30 minutes, soon or later the RAM RGB stops working, PC continue to be stable.

- Reboot the PC, it hangs on detect memory and I need to safe boot.



This happens only if I disable SPD Write protection.

If I enable SPD Write protection the issue does not occur.

It's strange that I'm the only one experiencing this problem.



PS: I have Corsair Dominator SK Hinyx, and after a week of intense test, I can't find any instability with these kits.

(Ram Test, TM5, memtest 86, OCCT, programming / code compiling)

Something to try : leave XPM off. Manually set the frequency to 4800 MHz. So far it is stable. With 4 sticks of Gskill 6000 cl 40.