[Intel] Sept 2024 (Update on Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Desktop Processors

[Silent_Scone]

September 25th Update:

Beta BIOS Links (microcode 0x12B)

Note: Some pages may not have propagated, please check back later

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO EVA-02 EDITION

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 DARK HERO

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX ENCORE

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 FORMULA

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 EXTREME

• ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO BTF

• ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI

• ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI II

• ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI

• ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI II

• ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI

• ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI II

• ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI D4

• ROG STRIX Z790-H GAMING WIFI

• ROG STRIX Z790-I GAMING WIFI

• PROART Z790-CREATOR
  
  Z690
  

• ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO
• ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO EVA EDITION
• ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX
• ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULAROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME
• ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL
• ROG STRIX Z690-I GAMING WIFI
• ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI
• ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4
• ROG STRIX Z690-G GAMING WIFI
• ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI
• ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI

Z760

• PROART B760-CREATOR
• PROART B760-CREATOR D4
• PROART B760-CREATOR WIFI
  
  Intel Community Forum
  Intel has localized the Vmin Shift Instability issue to a clock tree circuit within the IA core which is particularly vulnerable to reliability aging under elevated voltage and temperature. Intel has observed these conditions can lead to a duty cycle shift of the clocks and observed system instability.  

Intel has identified four (4) operating scenarios that can lead to Vmin shift in affected processors:

1. Motherboard power delivery settings exceeding Intel power guidance. 
   a.  Mitigation: Intel Default Settings recommendations for Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors.  
2. eTVB Microcode algorithm which was allowing Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen i9 desktop processors to operate at higher performance states even at high temperatures. 
   a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x125 (June 2024) addresses eTVB algorithm issue.  
3. Microcode SVID algorithm requesting high voltages at a frequency and duration which can cause Vmin shift. 
   a.  Mitigation: microcode 0x129 (August 2024) addresses high voltages requested by the processor.  
4. Microcode and BIOS code requesting elevated core voltages which can cause Vmin shift especially during periods of idle and/or light activity. 
   a.  Mitigation: Intel is releasing microcode 0x12B, which encompasses 0x125 and 0x129 microcode updates, and addresses elevated voltage requests by the processor during idle and/or light activity periods.  

Regarding the 0x12B update, Intel is working with its partners to roll out the relevant BIOS update to the public.

Intel’s internal testing comparing 0x12B microcode to 0x125 microcode – on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5200MT/s memory1  - indicates performance impact is within run-to-run variation (ie. Cinebench* R23, Speedometer*, WebXPRT4*, Crossmark*). For gaming workloads on Intel® Core™ i9-14900K with DDR5 5600MT/s memory2, performance is also within run-to-run variation (ie. Shadow of the Tomb Raider*, Cyberpunk* 2077, Hitman 3: Dartmoor*, Total War: Warhammer III – Mirrors of Madness*). However, system performance is dependent on configuration and several other factors.

Intel® reaffirms that both Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen mobile processors and future client product families – including the codename Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake families - are unaffected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue. We appreciate our customers’ patience throughout the investigation, as well as our partners’ support in the analysis and relevant mitigations. 

______________________________

August 2024

Hi all,

This update will be pinned here for clarity on the ongoing situation with some 13th and 14th-gen CPUs experiencing instability exhibited at stock.

Intel has issued the following statement (07/22/2024)

Based on extensive analysis of Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors returned to us due to instability issues, we have determined that elevated operating voltage is causing instability issues in some 13th/14th Gen desktop processors. Our analysis of returned processors confirms that the elevated operating voltage is stemming from a microcode algorithm resulting in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Intel is delivering a microcode patch which addresses the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages. We are continuing validation to ensure that scenarios of instability reported to Intel regarding its Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors are addressed. Intel is currently targeting mid-August for patch release to partners following full validation.

Intel is committed to making this right with our customers, and we continue asking any customers currently experiencing instability issues on their Intel Core 13th/14th Gen desktop processors reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/July-2024-Update-on-Instability-Reports-on-Intel-Core-13th...

For CPUs that exhibit unstable behaviour

Ensure you're on the latest BIOS for your motherboard

Update your motherboard BIOS to the latest revision containing microcode 0x125. Whilst this ucode revision does not resolve the issue, Intel has clarified that it contains fixes within microcode pertinent to Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (ETVB) behaviour that results in unexpected boost behaviour under certain thermal conditions.

Use Intel Base Profiles
The latest BIOS for your motherboard should contain Performance Preference options for Intel Base profiles. Ensure Intel Default Settings is selected. If using a 13th-Gen or 14th Gen i9 processor, choose Profile Performance.
If not selected already, ensure that SVID Behaviour is set to Intel Fail Safe

My CPU is running hotter using Intel Base Profiles than Asus Optimised, is this normal?
Yes, it can be normal for your CPU to run hotter than usual when using Intel base profiles. This occurs because following Intel's guidelines more closely often results in higher core voltages under certain workloads. Previously, motherboard vendors set the Load-Line Calibration (LLC) lower than Intel's recommendations to achieve lower temperatures while still delivering high performance. However, depending on your motherboard adhering to Intel's guidelines can lead to increased voltages whilst operating within Intel's current limits. This can result in higher operating temperatures depending on the workload.

Disable XMP

XMP is considered overclocking. To eliminate overclocking instability XMP should be disabled if experiencing crashing or unstable behaviour. Be sure to retest the behaviour at DRAM defaults.

Evaluate Cooling

Ensure your CPU cooling is working within the expected realms. If still experiencing instability under the conditions described above, consider reapplying the thermal application and removing any third-party CPU contact frames which may impact signal integrity.

Is my CPU damaged?

If still experiencing instability at Optimised Defaults [Intel - Performance / Extreme Profile] with XMP overclocking disabled, you will need to contact Intel.

I've read there was a fabrication issue with oxidisation, Intel has confirmed it.
This issue is unrelated to the ETVB behaviour and firmware and is a physical defect. Currently,  Intel has gone on record to state that a number of 13th-generation CPUs from 2023 are potentially impacted by this issue

ASUS FAQ

[weaselciuy]

new Bios set mine to Mobo Caps also. Both Mobo & Intel defaults behave the same, worse than before

[Gessler]

Hmm, I wonder if it's something like the SVID settings (where Intel Fail-safe sounds like it ought to be default but it's really only for stability on objectively terrible motherboards and should NOT be applied on good boards).

[somewede]

i read some statement some time ago that intel didn't recommend that, but they strongly recommended to use mobo's capability. 

[inge70]

Where did you read that?

I only know that Intel recommends the baseline profile or these settings, including Intel lazy safe, only for CPUs that are already unstable. But the fact that they recommend "motherboard capacity" for "ia tdc current limit" is news to me. I have already written what my settings are and they match Intel performance with iccmax: 307 A and PL1/PL2: 253W. With the non-recommended baseline, which no longer exists, the data for iccmax and PL1 would be lower. And the PC has been running like this since the IA TDC current limit was adjustable on my motherboard. I think it came with the second to last update 2302.

[somewede]

Hi, 

i believe it was either in Intel's own forum about stability issues/some youtube review tech guy.

Yes you have, but 13700k and 14900ks is totally different. Intel specs for 14900ks is 320w, not 253w..

[inge70]

Your post didn't say what CPU you have, so a better answer wasn't possible.

[somewede]

I think it was in my first reply to the thread, but the forum is kinda wonky it's not so easy to keep track in this state :DD ❤️ npnp

[somewede]

Hi,

14900ks needs the extreme settings, so it won't stay under 80c at all.  Which also the bios defaults to when installing the CPU/resetting.

And i had zero issues with my 13900kf reaching high temps, at all. Never ever, could stress test for hours and hours without even hitting over around 80 ish....

14900ks on the other hand, in hwinfo its red all over the place. And it downclocks to 5400MHz when doing cinebench, even tho it gives a lil more points than a 13900k.

I'm just curious because in XTU it says cutoff at certain temps, but it's absolutely not doing it, at all. Maybe i miss some setting from the default? Sure i can limit it PL1, pl2 to 253watt, but 14900KS needs 320w or it downclocks way below specs -I'VE READ-. 

MCU is also disabled by default. Never tried it on even..

3-4 cores goes up to 6.3GHz but whats the point if it just goes down and throttles so much/often.

If i game, and i don't lock the FPS pretty darn low, i'll be at those super high temps 24/7, which intel say is not good. Thats why i ask, feels sus with this bios default stuff to me..

[raven969]

Speaking about XMP (and QVL memory in general) we should not forget that those are verified/tested by ASUS in some environment. This environment is being randomly changed by Intel microcode releases quite often these days. "Let's change something and see if it makes the situation better". If microcode is not fully available to ASUS the best they can do is just run some tests to ensure nothing gets fried right away. Those tests are designed for OLD environment/microcode which does not exist anymore. So for XMP/QVL all bets are off and the only "safe" option is Intel defaults right now (as long as we trust Intel, right?)

The truth is that Intel is missing in action and mostly provides vague conflicting statements which cannot be verified without said microcode being disclosed. No one can say if "Intel 0x129 microcode is good" (or bad) unless he/she is employed by Intel and takes part in development.

I have spent a lot of time reading this topic recently. Thank you all guys for sharing your experience and many valuable advices. @Silent_Scone  you are personally helping Intel users in this difficult situation more than Intel itself. I really hope you get I nice bonus/promotion as it takes a lot of courage to take responsibility and provide guidance in times like this.

[Gessler]

Is it necessary to clear CMOS before/after updating the BIOS?

I've set everything to default (F5) and plan on doing that once again after the update, just wondering if there's anything else to consider.