[FIXED] Decrease in performance since Microcode update (0x129) on Asus Prime Z790-A and i7 13700KF

[Berdugo]

EDIT : FIXED Disabling CEP in the BIOS made the original performance come back

Hello, first excuse me if I make some English mistakes.

I have an Asus PRIME Z790-A WIFI motherboard, paired with a delidded i7 13700KF CPU, which has always been stable. From the beginning I installed it, I applied an undervolt and disabled Asus Multi-Core Enhancement, because I knew raptor lake CPUs ran very hot with everything set to Auto.

So today I updated my BIOS to the latest version (1663) which includes the 0x129 microcode update.

In the BIOS, at "Intel default settings", the only choice possible is "Performance", while other people can also choose "Extreme". I cannot. How come ? Is the Extreme setting only available on higher-end mobos ? Or with i9 13900K and 14900K CPUs ?

Anyway, so I chose Performance, and dialed in the same parameters that were in my previous BIOS (undervolt with negative offset, see parameters below at the end of the message). My system is stable, but in Handbrake, performance tanks by 50% : when encoding the first 10% of the same movie, the average fps on the old bios was around 32, on the new one it barely reaches 17. I haven't tried Cinebench unfortunately. Note : for long Handbrake encodings, on both BIOSes, I use a custom profile which limits any core  temperature to 75°c, which makes the CPU throttle down to around 4900 mhz on all P-cores. And on both BIOSes, while encoding, the CPU power consumption is around 150W.

Is the decrease in performance due to the fact that the Intel default setting can only be set to Performance and not Extreme ?

BIOS Settings (new BIOS) :

Performance Preferences : Intel Default Settings

Intel Default Settings : Performance

Asus MCE : Disabled

SVID Behavior : Auto (also tried Intel Failsafe, which made my voltages skyrocket)

XMP 1

LLC 3

Actual VRM Core Voltage : Negative offset (-0.05v)

CPU SA Voltage : 1.26v

MC Voltage : 1.4v

C-States disabled

Speedshift and Speedtest enabled

[Gaupe]

I  have a non K cpu  but the same might be for the K verison little below intel default settings and performance There is an option to set it to Asus Performance Enhancement 3.0   There is no warning and then the power limits seem to go off (i tested the max 90 deg version) fot my f processor the numbers where back as before. with that off i had a 35% reduction on cinebench

[swale]

See my recent post here https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel-700-600-series/weird-svid-behaviour-in-new-z790-bios/td-p/103702... 

I just upgraded to BIOS 1663 for my board. Like you I only see the Performance option for my i7-13700K. Try setting SVID to Disabled Enforce All Limits. If I set any other option then the Cinebench score is only about half of what it should be. My previous BIOS was fine so I suspect this might be a bug in the BIOS. My voltages are OK. I also undervolt by .075V and set a maximum CPU temperature of 85C.

[Gaupe]

don't think this is a bug, i think it is damage control. years ago the norm was to , default , have all settings on intel default conservative settings. Intel even trying to prevent overclocking, or unlocking unstable cores. 

More and more this has become a business model where intel now sells overclocking processors for an extra price and Motherboard manufactures competing to, default , have the highest scores.

Now that suddenly cpu's get damaged in a high rate and it is going to be expensive for Intel, or Asus because of their default settings.  iI they have to change out 2 generations of processors because of . faulty advertising and optimistic bios settings, they are trying to put the risk back to the user, where it was before.

In my opinion, if you make it your business to sell processors  expected performances and motherboards who can,  with their bios'es.  even take it a step further. I think  the risk is for the manufacturer.

As soon as you take extra money for something and let people believe it can only make a system unstable but it will not , permanently,  damage your hardware. You are responsible in case  it IS doing the damage.

Yes , Slowly overtime one can expect , but at the rate the last 2 gens are degrading i think it is not for the user to take the burden but for the manufacturers who have made money of that system.  They now try to have you think. if i don let it on default settings.... which is from 30 to way more lesser performance then what was promised.  Either they come with guarantees that certain settings , like asus performance enhancement 3.0 and general excepted XMP profiles will not damage you hardware much faster then then default  or they have to come with a way where the extra money you have put in will have its worth. 

[swale]

Maybe but changing the SVID Behaviour to Typical slightly improved my Cinebench score in my older BIOS and didn't halve the score in the latest BIOS which is astonishing.

[Silent_Scone]

13th and 14th Gen CPUs will request more than 1.55v prior to 0x129 even at stock. Motherboard vendor profiles aren't needed to cause this behaviour.

[swale]

Disabling IA CEP restored the Cinebench performance for me too. The score is now 29,417 using SVID behaviour = Typical which is only 5% short of the maximum CPU score and good considering my 85C thermal limit. VCORE running Cinebench was 1.314V drawing 228W power. Idle temperatures and power is fine.

However, it it safe to keep IA CEP disabled for longevity of the CPU?

My BIOS settings are now these:

Max CPU temperature                                                 85 C

Long term power limit                                                 253 W (Intel Performance spec)

Short term power limit                                                253 W (Intel Performance spec)

SVID behaviour                                                           Typical

IA CEP                                                                        Disabled

Asus Multicore Environment                                      Disabled enforce all limits

CPU Core / Cache max current                                  Auto

Global Core SVID CPU Voltage Offset                       -0.075 V (adaptive)

Intel Dynamic Tuning                                                    Disable (setting only works for 14^th gen)

Intel GNA                                                                      Enable

XMP memory                                                                XMP1

Aura LED                                                                        Off

Fast Boot                                                                        Disabled

OS Type                                                                          Windows UEFI Mode

Post Delay Time                                                             4s

Armoury Crate                                                               Disabled

Resize Bar                                                                      Disabled

Coil Whine Mitigation

Enhanced C State                                                        Disabled (default, changes C1E state)

Acoustic Mitigation                                                       Enabled

Disable Fast PKG C State ramp for IA domain            TRUE

Slow slew rate for IA domain                                        Fast/4

Disable Fast PKG C Sate Ramp for GT Domain          TRUE

Slow Slew Rate for GT Domain                                     Fast/4

[Gaupe]

That what i wonder too, is it safe to set CEP to disabled and Intel explicitly advised to set it to enabled 

see June 2024 Guidance regarding Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen K/KF/KS instability reports - Intel Commun...

and according to 
13th Generation Intel® Core™ and Intel® Core™ 14th Generation Processors Datasheet, Volume 1 of 2  

where in 1.3.1.4 CEP is explained

• Current Excursion Protection (CEP) This power management is a Processor integrated detector that senses when the Processor load current exceeds a preset threshold by monitoring for a Processor power domain voltage droop at the Processor power domain IMVPVR sense point. The Processor compares the IMVPVR output voltage with a preset threshold voltage (VTRIP) and when the IMVPVR output voltage is equal to or less than VTRIP, the Processor internally throttles itself to reduce the Processor load current and the power  

If i read that CEP is indeed causing undervolting to have you loose performance . but it is there for the reason to prevent high current spikes. (which are detected by watching the IMVPVR sense pint for voltage drops because that would indicate such a high current spike) So i am not so sure if its safe to disable it.

[swale]

To enable IA CEP I need to set SVID Behaviour to Intel Fail Safe else performance suffers under load. Some posters here say to avoid Intel Fail Safe so who to believe? I'm more inclined to follow the Intel guidance. Note in older Asus BIOSs that IA CEP was disabled by default if you set SVID behaviour to say Typical.

[Gaupe]

It is possible to Undervolt withouth disabling CEP The guy here has an aura board but is planning on making a video for Asus also.  (No t a video for who wants a fast and simple answer though, but gives a lot of insight)

https://youtu.be/a5zDWWSKyjM?si=uljtR_WFZYVXzj5p