Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Extreme - 2 kits don'

[uplink]

*t work.

Hey there,

finally, after days I managed to somewhat finalize my build, it's Z690 Extreme, 12900K, cooled by Ryujin II and I'm trying to feed the system with QVLCMT32GX5M2B5200C38 kit, but to no avail.

At my first boot, I tried two of these kits, on auto, but damn, was I wrong, not even POST and after many hours of settings I POST-ed, but I error in MemTest a LOT.

So I tried each module and ran 4 passes of MemTest on each module and I tried two modules in each slot alone [when applicable, You can only combine A2, A2 + B2, A2 + B2 + A1 and last but not least A2 + B2 + A1 + B1.

But...I manage fine to run A2 + B2 and A1 + B1, both kits with no errors and NO XMP yet, just auto settings.

So I gave up on 64 gigs of RAM, I mean I downgraded the whole memory array into 3600 MHz CL40 etc. and it still showed errors :/.

But that's not the end of it. I'm working with QVL modules/kits.

I tried single kit in dedicated A2 + B2, auto works fine

, but I can't manage to run XMP I. nor XMP II. I tried to downclock the memory a bit, than I tried going down to CL40 and still nothing.

I'm desperate, I mean, isn't the purpose of the fancy QVL table on Asus website with each mobo to tell user which memory kits were tested and work? Because they don't.

Now I don't know whether my memory modules are faulty [though, they MemTest perfectly on auto when running solo or in pairs], or my CPU is trashed [memory controller], or motherboard is faulty.

I mean God, it's so complicated.

Do You guys have any experience on what to do? Is it only crappy BiOS/UEFi? If so, why are the memory on the list in QVL? Or did Asus just copy + paste some arbitrary DDR5 modules they found on the internet and put them to QVL list?

Please advise,

With kind regards

uplink

[Chainbold]

uplink wrote:
*t work.

Hey there,

finally, after days I managed to somewhat finalize my build, it's Z690 Extreme, 12900K, cooled by Ryujin II and I'm trying to feed the system with QVLCMT32GX5M2B5200C38 kit, but to no avail.

At my first boot, I tried two of these kits, on auto, but damn, was I wrong, not even POST and after many hours of settings I POST-ed, but I error in MemTest a LOT.

So I tried each module and ran 4 passes of MemTest on each module and I tried two modules in each slot alone [when applicable, You can only combine A2, A2 + B2, A2 + B2 + A1 and last but not least A2 + B2 + A1 + B1.

But...I manage fine to run A2 + B2 and A1 + B1, both kits with no errors and NO XMP yet, just auto settings.

So I gave up on 64 gigs of RAM, I mean I downgraded the whole memory array into 3600 MHz CL40 etc. and it still showed errors :/.

But that's not the end of it. I'm working with QVL modules/kits.

I tried single kit in dedicated A2 + B2, auto works fine

, but I can't manage to run XMP I. nor XMP II. I tried to downclock the memory a bit, than I tried going down to CL40 and still nothing.

I'm desperate, I mean, isn't the purpose of the fancy QVL table on Asus website with each mobo to tell user which memory kits were tested and work? Because they don't.

Now I don't know whether my memory modules are faulty [though, they MemTest perfectly on auto when running solo or in pairs], or my CPU is trashed [memory controller], or motherboard is faulty.

I mean God, it's so complicated.

Do You guys have any experience on what to do? Is it only crappy BiOS/UEFi? If so, why are the memory on the list in QVL? Or did Asus just copy + paste some arbitrary DDR5 modules they found on the internet and put them to QVL list?

Please advise,

With kind regards

uplink

well, it's a pity. I have no advice, only this: If you check the lengthy discussion and reports on this (and other) forum about users trying to run 64 GB DDR5 with 2 kits, you will find that in most cases it does NOT work. Either the system is not posting at all, or it is unstable, and needs to run at far lower than the rated frequency.

Some will tell you: It's your mistake, you should have "researched" the matter, because somewhere in some fine print, there is a warning that one should not expect that 2 kits (even when they comprise exactly the same RAM modules with the same parts number) work together. This seems to be true for DDR 5. It seems nobody is getting DDR5 with 2 kits (with each 2x16 GB) working. This is illogic, because why do we get 4 DIMM sockets for DDR5 on Z690 boards when it is basically impossible (or nearly impossible) to run such board with all of them populated? MSI is more honest in this regard, because their high end Z690 Unify-X comes only with 2 DIMM sockets. The truth is, for DDR5, you do not need 4 DIMMS, because a DDR5 module has a far higher capacity than DDR4 (up to 512 GB).

IMHO it is in reality to be blamed (if there is any blame) not on the user, but on the motherboard manufacturers. Many of us have been for years combining 2 kits DDR3 or DDR4 (2 kits with 2 x 16 GB) without problems. I personally have been running 2 such kits DRR4 with a total of 64 GB for years. No problem at all. It seems though DDR5 in combination with the Z690 chipset is different. But how could one anticipate such issue?

[uplink]

Chainbold wrote:
well, it's a pity. I have no advice, only this: If you check the lengthy discussion and reports on this (and other) forum about users trying to run 64 GB DDR5 with 2 kits, you will find that in most cases it does NOT work. Either the system is not posting at all, or it is unstable, and needs to run at far lower than the rated frequency.

Some will tell you: It's your mistake, you should have "researched" the matter, because somewhere in some fine print, there is a warning that one should not expect that 2 kits (even when they comprise exactly the same RAM modules with the same parts number) work together. This seems to be true for DDR 5. It seems nobody is getting DDR5 with 2 kits (with each 2x16 GB) working. This is illogic, because why do we get 4 DIMM sockets for DDR5 on Z690 boards when it is basically impossible (or nearly impossible) to run such board with all of them populated? MSI is more honest in this regard, because their high end Z690 Unify-X comes only with 2 DIMM sockets. The truth is, for DDR5, you do not need 4 DIMMS, because a DDR5 module has a far higher capacity than DDR4 (up to 512 GB).

IMHO it is in reality to be blamed (if there is any blame) not on the user, but on the motherboard manufacturers. Many of us have been for years combining 2 kits DDR3 or DDR4 (2 kits with 2 x 16 GB) without problems. I personally have been running 2 such kits DRR4 with a total of 64 GB for years. No problem at all. It seems though DDR5 in combination with the Z690 chipset is different. But how could one anticipate such issue?

Thank You kindly for Your reply Chainbold!

Amen Chainbold, I must admit, I follow QVL only for the past three years, but before I simply blindly bought "same module, same timing, same speed", and was content, TBT, I didn't use XMP for more than 4 - 5 years now, so that's that :).

Thank You for Your insight and You're totally right! I'll update my status at the end of my multiquote message, I don't want to spam the forums with my replies.

captaintrips wrote:
Chainbold, I agree with all of the above with the exception of placing blame of DDR5 multi-kit limitations on the motherboard vendors. That seems blame may be more towards Intel/Z690 chipset and DDR5 design board (JEDEC) if one were to point a finger.

Tbh, seems like even the motherboard vendors may have not been fully aware of the multi-kit dimm setup limitations until after the fact. Looking at bios ram profiles and overclocking docs, they clearly anticipated 4 dimm modules capable of advertised speeds or via xmp. I see listings for 4x16GB and 4x32GB in those sheets and profiles at speeds beyond 4800mhz.

It was definitely a shock to pretty much everyone who bought multiple kits and the fine print was so small that it didn't even register with anyone until it had already hit retail and people started having issues.

Unbeknownst to the consumer on the initial launch of DDR5, there were apparently only two choices... ram space or ram speed. You could not have both as we had with ddr3 and ddr4, as 64gb dimm modules are likely still months down the road since we are limited to 16gb and 32gb kits as of now. I know these are early adopter issues, but the DDR5 multi-kit limitations def seems a bit shady as if it were intentionally kept hush-hush until after launch.

True, very true captaintrips. And from what I've studied today, I must agree, though, I really happy I managed to run the system "somehow" now, because it really looked bad yesterday 😕 [I've had so many potential culprits, bad memory controller in CPU, weak CPU silicone that cannot run memory above some specs/its mem controller [something like silicone lottery with GPUs and at OCing CPUs], motherboard could've been bad, I mean I spent 14 hours memtesting and switching modules from one DiMM slot to another, it was crazy.

Silent Scone@ROG wrote:
The answer is relatively simple, don't mix memory kits. Once one understands the limitation of mixing binned kits, the aim of the blame should reside closer to home. The fact it's "worked before" comes down to nothing more than:

1) Blind Luck

2) The kits and platforms in question are comfortable running that density at those speeds

3) The memory vendor put sufficient guardband in place that makes it possible to combine them (memory vendors also do not recommend or guarantee mixing kits will work, in fact, they do not guarantee they will work at XMP at all).

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-o...


This article might be getting on for a few years old now, but the laws and principles are exactly the same.


For single kit tuning.

try

VDD 1.4

VDDQ 1.4

VDDQTX 1.4

MC VDD 1.2 - 1.25v

If not already, flash to the latest UEFI

Thank You for Your reply Silent Scone!

Wow, nice, even some tips! <3. Well, now I'm finally running the second kit solo [DiMM slot A2 and B2] in XMP II. [manufacturer default] and so far it works [I have few runs behind me now], hope it'll last!

If not, I will try Your tuning, I'll try to increase voltage according to Your data, thank You!

Mazzy80 wrote:
This is simply the result of an immature platform. You are beta testing the new memory so problems are expected.
There is not a single commercially available server platform based on DDR5 yet. That speak volume of the state of DDR5.
The DDR4 is 7 years old super mature platform, with years for memory controllers and memory chip to get along and get fixed any issue.

The story of buy only 1 Kit and never mix-max is the story of memory/Mobo company to put the blame on the user and save money on RMA.
Nowhere is states on technical papers of JEDEC/INTEL/AMD that you need to buy only DIMMs in 1 single kit, they nor ever mention the word kit.
It's only states to don't mix-match chips from different vendor/model/latencies for electrical compatibility, that case is not supported and can produce unexpected errors (This is often classified how Errata on CPU specs, just like on Skylake family generations).
If you buy 2 kits at the same time from same vendor, chance are almost 100% you get same chips, so usually no problem.
Said that, overclocking 4 module is harder, and always will be, so you cannot expect same result from 2 vs 4 module in overclocking. Sometimes in technical paper there are limitation on how 4 module especially double side can or cannot run reliability at some speeds.Overclocking is about trading more speed Vs reducing safety margin for stability.
Remember there is a reason because JEDEC don't set standard for high speed memory and Intel/AMD don't support it officially. There are not stable with usual margin at the current time, and as long you talk about supported frequency and buy same model DIMM stick you will be fine also if you buy 8 single stick. Overclocking is a gamble, nothing is sure, every single pc is different because there are not 2 Mobo alike or 2 memory stick, let alone combination of them.

Thank You for Your reply Mazzy!

Well, yes, it's young platform, though, my issue was with fact that I have "identical" rig as a guy from guru3D and he's running them fine [same two sticks, one kit, same motherboard, same CPU, same cooler]. But yes, it's a super duper young platform and bugs and early adopter misfortune is most likely a must. Agreed.

So I'll sum it up. Now I'm running only one kit, in DiMM slots A2 and B2, and trying to make standard XMP work [XMP II. in case of Asus nomenclature] and I might succeed.

I mean yesterday that didn't work, I've had errors in MemTest when I was running just one kit, so maybe kit is weaker, I dunno, maybe I'm lucky today.

Though, I know, that two kits are no go, I already ordered Trident Z5 32 GB kit CL36 from alternate.de today, since it's gonna have to be speed that's gonna be warming my soul and heart, and not capacity and speed.

Thank You for Your insight guys, I'll update this thread, once I managed to finalize all 4 runs of XMP and second 4 runs after restart of the system. And than I'll update the thread once I fully moved to new platform.

Thank You once more all of ya! 🙂

//edit: so, here I go 🙂 so far so good 😄

[captaintrips]

Chainbold, I agree with all of the above with the exception of placing blame of DDR5 multi-kit limitations on the motherboard vendors. That seems blame may be more towards Intel/Z690 chipset and DDR5 design board (JEDEC) if one were to point a finger.

Tbh, seems like even the motherboard vendors may have not been fully aware of the multi-kit dimm setup limitations until after the fact. Looking at bios ram profiles and overclocking docs, they clearly anticipated 4 dimm modules capable of advertised speeds or via xmp. I see listings for 4x16GB and 4x32GB in those sheets and profiles at speeds beyond 4800mhz.

It was definitely a shock to pretty much everyone who bought multiple kits and the fine print was so small that it didn't even register with anyone until it had already hit retail and people started having issues.

Unbeknownst to the consumer on the initial launch of DDR5, there were apparently only two choices... ram space or ram speed. You could not have both as we had with ddr3 and ddr4, as 64gb dimm modules are likely still months down the road since we are limited to 16gb and 32gb kits as of now. I know these are early adopter issues, but the DDR5 multi-kit limitations def seems a bit shady as if it were intentionally kept hush-hush until after launch.

[Silent_Scone]

The answer is relatively simple, don't mix memory kits. Once one understands the limitation of mixing binned kits, the aim of the blame should reside closer to home. The fact it's "worked before" comes down to nothing more than:

1) Blind Luck

2) The kits and platforms in question are comfortable running that density at those speeds

3) The memory vendor put sufficient guardband in place that makes it possible to combine them (memory vendors also do not recommend or guarantee mixing kits will work, in fact, they do not guarantee they will work at XMP at all).

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?57038-Don%92t-combine-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-o...


This article might be getting on for a few years old now, but the laws and principles are exactly the same.


For single kit tuning.

try

VDD 1.4

VDDQ 1.4

VDDQTX 1.4

MC VDD 1.2 - 1.25v

If not already, flash to the latest UEFI

[Mazzy80]

This is simply the result of an immature platform. You are beta testing the new memory so problems are expected.
There is not a single commercially available server platform based on DDR5 yet. That speak volume of the state of DDR5.
The DDR4 is 7 years old super mature platform, with years for memory controllers and memory chip to get along and get fixed any issue.

The story of buy only 1 Kit and never mix-max is the story of memory/Mobo company to put the blame on the user and save money on RMA.
Nowhere is states on technical papers of JEDEC/INTEL/AMD that you need to buy only DIMMs in 1 single kit, they nor ever mention the word kit.
It's only states to don't mix-match chips from different vendor/model/latencies for electrical compatibility, that case is not supported and can produce unexpected errors (This is often classified how Errata on CPU specs, just like on Skylake family generations).
If you buy 2 kits at the same time from same vendor, chance are almost 100% you get same chips, so usually no problem.
Said that, overclocking 4 module is harder, and always will be, so you cannot expect same result from 2 vs 4 module in overclocking. Sometimes in technical paper there are limitation on how 4 module especially double side can or cannot run reliability at some speeds.Overclocking is about trading more speed Vs reducing safety margin for stability.
Remember there is a reason because JEDEC don't set standard for high speed memory and Intel/AMD don't support it officially. There are not stable with usual margin at the current time, and as long you talk about supported frequency and buy same model DIMM stick you will be fine also if you buy 8 single stick. Overclocking is a gamble, nothing is sure, every single pc is different because there are not 2 Mobo alike or 2 memory stick, let alone combination of them.

[Silent_Scone]

Mazzy80 wrote:
This is simply the result of an immature platform. You are beta testing the new memory so problem are expected.
There is not a single commercially available server platform based on DDR5 yet. That speak volume of the state of DDR5.
The DDR4 is 7 years old super mature platform, with years for memory controllers and memory chip to get along and fix any issue.

The story of buy only Kits and never mix-max is the story of memory company/MObo to put the blame on the user and save money on RMA.
Nowhere is states on technical papers of JEDEC/INTEL/AMD states that you need to buy only DIMM in kits.
It's only declared to don't mix match chip from different vendor/model for electrical compatibility, that case is not supported and can produce unexpected error (This is often classified how Errata on CPU, just like on Skylake family generations).
If you buy 2 kits at the same time from same vendor, chance are almost 100% you get same chips, so no problem you should experience.
Said that, overclocking 4 module is harder, and always will be, so you cannot expect same result from 2 vs 4 module in overclocking. Sometimes in tecnical paper there are limitation on how 4 module especially double side can or cannot run reliability at some speeds.
Remember there is a reason because JEDEC don't set standard for high speed memory and Intel/AMD don't support it officially. There are not stable with usual margin at the current time.

Hello, I suggest you read the article posted above to avoid leading fellow users up the garden path. There are reasons at an electrical level that mixing kits is ill-advised. Pseudo science or opinion does not change these facts.

Although, you do not have to be anywhere close to an electrical engineer to understand why adding two modules to a kit binned to operate at a given frequency with precisely two modules can be problematic.

To quote the above link:

If a 16GB kit can handle a particular memory timing at 10 clocks, that’s what the memory vendor will program into the memory kit’s XMP or SPD profile. If we add another 16GB of the same kit to the system, it’s probable that this 10 clock delay needs to be increased to 12 or more clocks in order to ensure stability. It could be worse still – the modules may require more voltage or not be capable of running at a given frequency at all. Either way, the system will only have the timings of a single memory kit to reference, leaving any adjustments to the end-user to perform. There’s the primary cause for end-user frustration right there – most are not equipped to deal with the situation and end up frustrated, blaming all and sundry for their misadventure.

[Chainbold]

Mazzy80 wrote:

The DDR4 is 7 years old super mature platform, with years for memory controllers and memory chip to get along and get fixed any issue.

True. BUT, do you remember when we got DDR4? Sure, initial frequencies were lower than what we got eventually. But I do not recall any of the issues, we have now with DDR5. I do not recall users who could not run their DDR4 modules at the rated speed (as we have now with DDR5), or even could not even boot. Zillions of users (like myself) were running 4 x 8 GB modules without any issue. I'm not at all against the introduction of new technology. DDR5 delivers, if you get it running. But the problems are now reported all over the place. What we have at this moment is "immature" to an extent, I do not recall since the time of the infamous RAMBUS memory. , some 20 years ago. It's a heavy price some user currently pay for the pleasure to be an early adaptor. :cool:

[uplink]

Hey there guys, so this will be my last update for a while. After multiple tests I found out, that second kit is actually faulty, therefore it could've never worked in tandem with first one to begin with. Joke's on me, should've tested both kits even more thoroughly prior to my ranting spree. My apologies for false alarm and wasting Your time. I'll make sure I'll be more thorough next time. Memory is running in fail safe/auto profile.