NGFF on R.O.G motherboards

[a5cent]

Hello everyone

I'm planning my next personal desktop build and need some help understanding Asus' motherboards.

My primary requirements are:
- PCIe based SSD with 2GB/s read/write speeds (must)
- Dedicated graphics card (must)
- Smaller is better (I would prefer a mini-ITX build)

I wasn't really expecting this to be feasible, because I'd need two PCIe slots. One for the GPU and one for the PCIe based SSD, whereas mini-ITX mainboards have but a single PCIe slot.

Then... I came across this post which got me very excited:

http://rog.asus.com/238712013/country/rog-hq/this-is-why-ngff-is-the-best-choice-for-maximus-vi-moth...

The ADATA XNP280 SSD referenced in that post is a PCIe (x4) based solution, offering up to 1.8GB/s read/write speeds. That is close enough to what I'm looking for.

However, it seems as if the m.2 socket on the R.O.G. Maximus VI Impact uses but a single PCIe lane (x1). That would cripple the XNP280 to almost a fourth of its capability. I'm having trouble believing that Asus would tease NGFF compatibility with this great NGFF SSD, if it ends up being no better your average SATA3 based solution. Am I understanding this correctly, or am I missing something?

If this is really only a PCIe x1 solution, then my question is whether there are any Mini-ITX alternatives with a proper NGFF solution providing PCIe x4?

Thanks for your feedback and clarifications!

[Skwidbol]

oops wrong thread. sorry 😉

[a5cent]

lol, no problem.

At least someone was reading 😉

Also good to know that we can now purchase m.2 cards, although they really should be based on PCIe, not on SATA like the ones digital discount has listed.

[vanakka]

Nawesemo wrote:
Woooosh... as this all flies over my head.

(not that it matters on account i doubt i'll understand, but ...)

NGFF? M.2!?

Check out this article. As long as you already have some basic understanding of PCIe slots, this might help.

[ngff4OS]

I'm leaning towards the BPLUS M2P4S which holds 2 x Samsung XP941s.
The Supermicro mATX 1U Chassis ( SC515-280UB) has 2 horizontal Full Height PCI Expansion slots.
A PCI-e Ribbon extender for the 4X and 1X (external DSP 1U Connector card) slots is a walk in the park. I use an extender right now for the external DSP 1U rack.
No need to wait for motherboard manufacturers.
Plus I prefer using a stable/mature product, only upgrading the peripherals.
SATA Express has made a splash, but it appears the Random Reads of 150k+ and 1.8GBps reads are here now, and fairly priced.
The current mSATA design on the Asus and Supermicro boards might be fine to use for an OS+Apps install, but that Dog Won't Hunt for streaming and random reads I need.

[a5cent]

ngff4OS wrote:
I'm leaning towards the BPLUS M2P4S which holds 2 x Samsung XP941s.

I hear you! That BPLUS M2P4S is a nice card indeed! Unfortunately, mini-ITX boards don't have a free PCIe slot that we could plug such a PCIe card into. That was one of the main points of this thread... to illustrate how mini-ITX motherboards currently have no way of achieving even half the storage performance of your BPLUS M2P4S, while ironically, even more space constrained notebooks can!

Anyway, here's the next instalment of "ruminations on the computer industry's storage fiasco":

Asus' next round of motherboards, or at least some of them, will support SATA Express (SATAe from now on). Anandtech just posted an article on it, which has convinced me that SATAe is a terrible standard. Now that I understand it fully, I can say I'll be avoiding SATAe based motherboards if at all possible. This is the short rundown explaining why:

• The SATAe connector cables are huge and unwieldy.
  
• Despite the huge connector cables, the SATAe SSD still requires a separate power connector from the PSU
  
• For every SATAe connector on the motherboard, the OEM must reserve/divert at least two PCIe lanes, meaning such boards must incorporate extra controllers (adding to cost and lowering reliability) OR, sacrifice features, as in fewer PCIe slots, fewer USB headers/ports, no second NIC, or something else along those lines.
  
• A SATAe SSD is inferior, in every way, to the PCIe SSD cards that are already available today. Why? (a) The PCIe card can draw power directly from the PCIe bus/slot, while a SATAe SSD requires a separate power connector. (b) If a motherboard incorporates two SATAe x2 connectors, then the OEM has effectively decided for you, how those four PCIe lanes may be used. Even if you use neither of those two SATAe connectors, those four PCIe lanes are gone regardless. Had the OEM instead just provided a standard PCIe x4 slot, then you could use those PCIe lanes for any PCIe x4 card of your choice, leaving it up to you how to use those four lanes. (d) A PCIe x4 slot offers enough bandwidth to drive a high performance SSD solution, where as a SATAe x2 connector doesn't.
  
• Apparently, the SATAe hardware being released in 2014, would already have been outdated if it was released in 2013. They are all PCIe 2.0 based solutions, and use only two lanes instead of four. This PCIe 2.0 x2 configuration is only 50% faster than current day SATA SSDs. Such an improvement is barely noticeable. Furthermore, modern SSD controllers can already easily saturate such a connection, meaning we're not even alleviating the bandwidth bottleneck, which really was the whole point of connecting SSDs to the PCIe bus to begin with!
  

IMHO SATAe is a terrible standard. I hope Asus and the rest of the industry quickly realize how superfluous it is and drop support for it immediately. They should instead be focusing on NVMe based PCIe SSD cards (full height & half height) and the m.2 form factors. IMHO SATAe serves no purpose and deserves to be DOA.

That was my rant on SATAe. Anyway, I'm still hoping Asus is about to grace us with a Asus ROG Impact VII with a m.2 x4 connector! Please Asus! Don't fail us!

[Skwidbol]

http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/solid-state-drives-sata-m.2-ngff-ssd not that fast but if you are eager to try it out. this is the cheapest i found(for those who have seen items at Ramcity)

[a5cent]

In post #9 I wrote:

Intel’s next generation chipset, Z97, will allegedly support a single SATA Express port

I suspect everything related to conventional SATA Express [will be] simple and straight forward, in the sense that Asus’ motherboards will just ship with whatever features Intel’s future chipsets support.

What the deal is with m.2 seems a lot murkier to me however.

Last November, reports surfaced disputing that Z97/H97 chipsets will support SATA Express. Recently, new rumors started popping up claiming that Z97/H97 chipsets will ship with native support for m.2 SSDs instead:

HKEPC (translated Chinese)
Fudzilla

Although not explicitly stated, it seems likely that support will be limited to PCIe 2.0 x2, instead of PCIe 3.0 x2.

Tech sites also report that at least some of Asus' upcoming motherboards are still likely to ship with SATA Express connectors, despite the Z97/H97 chipsets not supporting the standard natively:

ocaholic

All these rumors suggest that the market is still moving in the direction I had assumed it would, although slower than I had hoped.

Unfortunately, these new developments also have me a little worried, again, particularly in regard to mini ITX boards. Having Intel's upcoming chipsets natively support m.2 PCIe 2.0 x2 begs the question whether Asus will settle for this lowly implementation, or if Asus will set the bar higher (as they should) and provide m.2 PCIe 2.0 x4. Does anybody know? Any guesses?

Despite these new developments, I still have the exact same m.2 related expectations for Asus' upcoming high end mini ITX motherboards:

1x m.2 PCIe 2.0 x2 (now based on the expected native support offered by Intel's Z97/H97 chipsets)
1x m.2 PCIe 2.0 x4 (still requires a separate chip)

If Asus is smart, they will also sell rebranded m.2 NVMe enabled PCIe 2.0 x4 based SSDs (like this one) in various capacities, that they have verified to work well with their mini-ITX motherboards. I suspect that could be quite profitable for the first motherboard manufacturer to go that extra mile.

Although nice, I wouldn't consider m.2 PCIe 2.0 x4 support mandatory for larger motherboards, as these have extra PCIe slot into which owners can always install a high end PCIe based SSD card.

Desktop performance shouldn't trail laptop performance, not even mini ITX desktops. Unfortunately, that is exactly what is happening! If current laptops can incorporate high performance storage solutions like Samsung's XP941 or ADATA's XNP280E, then desktops should be able to do the same.

Make it happen Asus!

[Antronman]

I have a feeling that Haswell-E is going to get a new platform.

[ngff4OS]

Good, then the older proven stuff I like will be even cheaper....:o

[a5cent]

I don't have any illusions that the Impact VII got the m.2 3.0 x4 connector due to the hopes and wishes I expressed is this thread, but I'm really happy that this board turned out the way it has! Thank you Asus! Getting the Impact VII next week!