Gaming Rig: Mobos and other stuff doubts

[MaRTiDoRe]

I'm replacing my 5 yo PC (i7 870) and some doubts arised while building my new gaming rig:

- Asus Z170 PRO GAMING or Asus Maximus VIII Hero

Not sure whats the difference, and PRO GAMING is 50€ cheaper. To me they seem almost the same.

The thing is, I have NEVER overclocked a CPU, so I have 0 idea of OC. I need a MOBO which is easy to OC the CPU or a MOBO with a lot of OC guides (I'm going to need them).

- i7 6700K or i5 6600K

I have been reading a lot about this topic. Mostly things like "pick i7 it you want your PC to be future proof and last 4+ years", "for gaming just go for the i5, HT sucks for gaming" "it will take 5+ years for games to correctly use that many cores"etc.

The thing is that since my PC is only for gaming, I'm almost sure I'll pick the 6600k. As for today i7 "only" offers 10% improvement in the better case, and in most games the difference is extremely small. I will invest those 140€ I save somewhere else.

I hope the above mentioned MOBOS are good for OCing the 6600k.

- RAM

Again, I have been reading a lot about this topic and watching some benchmarks. DDR4 brings little to no difference over DDR3 for gaming. The same happens with the speed (MHz).

I would like to pick 32 GB DDR3 1800MHz and I'm sure I wouldn't notice any difference against 32 GB DDR4 2800 MHz. Any way, I think that the Mobos above mentioned are not comparible with DDR3 so I will go for DDR4 like it or not.

Any opinions in the MHz of RAM for gaming? Is it recommended to have high MHz RAM if I plan to OC the 6600k to 4.5 or so?

Also, any personal opinion in G.Skill Ripjaws V Red DDR4 2400 PC4-19200 16GB 2x8GB CL15 ? It seems the most common option in http://www.pccomponentes.com/memorias_ddr4.html

- Water Cooling

There are some air cooling systems which are knowk to work pretty well, like the Noctua and so on, but I just want to give water cooling a try.

I have never ever used water cooling, so I think I will go for something easy AIO water cooling system. Do you have any specific recommendation for anyone listed here http://www.pccomponentes.com/refrigeracion_liquida.html or any specific band?

anyone knows whats the % difference in temperatures between air and water cooling? Like, is it a big difference?

Also, does water cooling systems need more maintenance like changing the liquid every X time etc?

So those are my doubs right now basically. Here is a list of my PC parts in case you need it for more info:

DISCLAIMER: I don't want any extreme OC that can compromise the durability of my CPU. I just want a decent OC to introduce myself in the OCing world and learn a bit.

Mobo: Not decided yet
CPU: 85% I'll go for 6600k unles any pr0 OCer like Nate or Chino says "NO!! If u want to OC go for the 6700k even if it's only for gaming"
COOLING: I want to try AIO water cooling, but depending on the feedback I get here I shall go for a good air cooling like Noctua.
RAM: 32GB DDR4 but not sure which brand or MHz yet
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 980 TI
STORAGE: Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500 GB + 1TB HDD (Seagate or Barracuda)
CAGE: Not sure. I will pick a big one with enough fans for a good vent. Suggestions from any cage listed here will be welcome
PSU: Not sure yet but something arround 750W Silver or Gold
SO: Currently Win 7 but will Upgrade to Win 10 with new this new rig
SCREEN: I want 144Hz screen with Gsync to really take advantage of this new gaming rig. Since Asus ROG Swift is too big and expensive as f*** I will go for AOC G2460PG 24" 144hz (400€ more or less).

Thanks for your help my OCers/Gamers comrades!

[Veovis]

Alright I'm in a similar boat and I did some (relatively little) research as to what to look for.

Pro gaming vs ROG:
Seeing what the difference in the boards, physically, is AMD (Pro gaming) vs ROG (Intel)
As for the Heroes There's two, The Hero and The Hero Alpha. They perform the same, the Alpha just has the ability to change colors.

i5 vs i7...
Debatable. If it's only for gaming go for i5 as the i7 is more for rendering. HOWEVER, that extra 10% can come into play if you plan on using this rig as long as your old one. But there's an additional two cents:

Gen 5/4 vs Gen 6
The old i7 chips that aren't Skylake actually do more performance in benchmarking (4790K) and are compatible with the cheaper DDR3 at the cost of higher wattage.

RAM:
You're on the money with the DDR4, unless the board specifically states DDR3 compatible, do not get DDR3. Intel i# Gen 6 chips work best with DDR4 because of the amps they run at (1.2 I think?) DDR3 runs at higher amperage, there were some reports of the DDR3 boards frying the 6th gen cores due to this issue.

As for figuring out which is faster? You have to account for CAS (Or CL).
Cas is how many cycles the ram is accesssed. Lower CAS (CL), more frequency. A way to calculate this is CAS (CL)/Herz (Lower is better) so while higher clocked ram may appear attractive, you have to be aware of the access speed. Otherwise you're paying more for slower ram.



Water cooling:

All in one closed loop systems are great for the first time overclocker, I use Cooler master, but they all generally work on the same concept. ASUS's builds show Corsair coolers for their closed loop systems. Just keep in mind this only cools the CPU and not anything else that you may wish to do (which would require a custom system or voiding a warranty somewhere to expand the current one.) My only advice is that when getting one, make sure you get quiet fans, like Thermaltake's UFO series or a rubber guard that goes over the lip. Noise from the fan is annoying. I don't overclock my processor, but because it normally runs hot putting the cooler on it was a great choice to keep it from causing issues.

Overclocking:
If you attempt this I suggest looking at reviews that talk about it. That way you can get numbers for a stable overclock without doing anything too risky.

CAGE:
Whatever's coolest (pun intended) I'd say list off all the features you want in a case (ie fits X hard drives, expansions... motherboard size) and use that to determine what's best. Also a budget would be helpful so you can get pointed in a right direction.

Bottom line:
I'm iffy on this as far as Motherboard and Chipset. While the Skylake processors and new ram use less power they don't really have an overall advantage (from what I can gather) over the previous generation chips. Plus Pascal ( GTX10XX ) is due for a release sometime this year and there's probably going to be some form of 6770K or 6790K that will improve on the release of the current skylakes.

Additional questions:
Why the Hero? Are you planning on adding another PCIE card?

[Nate152]

Hello MaRTiDoRe

Welcome to the ROG forum !

An AIO cpu cooler is a good choice but you will need to decide on a case that will support the one you want. There are a lot of nice cases to choose from but I'd go with this one. It supports a 360 radiator at the top.

Cage
http://www.pccomponentes.com/corsair_obsidian_750d.html

cpu cooler
http://www.pccomponentes.com/ekwb_ek_xlc_predator_360_kit_refrigeracion_liquida __incl__qdc_.html

Motherboard - Maximus VIII Formula with RGB lighting control- You can get two fittings and tubing and incorporate the crosschill block in with the EK Predator 360 for liquid cooling of the motherboard vrm's.

https://pcdiy.asus.com/2016/01/rogs-maximus-viii-formula-redefines-the-math-for-premium-pcs/

For gaming you want speed over capacity, I have 16GB 2400MHz Kingston HyperX Predator overclocked to 3200MHz. G.Skill Ram is a good choice you can go with 16GB of 2400MHz and should be able to overclock it to 3200MHz or even beyond. 16GB is plenty for gaming and will be for years to come.

The 980ti is an excellent choice for a gpu. if you want the heat exhausted out of your case go with the reference 980ti, if you want the best overclocking 980ti go with the matrix platinum or even the Strix.

You could go with the fastest M.2 pcie ssd the Samsung 950 pro, there is a 256GB and 512GB.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Series-512GB-PCIe-NVMe/dp/B01639694M

PSU Seasonic 1200 watt. I recommend this psu to leave you room for future upgrades, if you ever want to add another 980ti you have the option to do it.

http://www.pccomponentes.com/seasonic_platinum_1200w_80_plus_platinum_modular.h tml

Are you sure you want a 24" monitor? That's kind of small for gaming, I think if you went with a bigger monitor you would be glad you did. There are some 34" widescreen 3440 x 1440 monitors that are reasonably priced. G-sync isn't a necessity and adds to the cost.

Gaming benchmarks of the 6600k and 6700k in some games they're pretty are equal, in other games the 6700k wins by a good margin.

[kkn]

heres a 144hz and 27" led monitor for under 400 euros but its not g-sync.
http://www.pccomponentes.com/aoc_g2770pf_27__led_144hz.html
1ms lag.
( dont understand the language ).
so thats a good one for the price and size.
and use displayport for 144HZ.
if you use HDMI or DVI you are at 60HZ.

the AIO coolers dont need enny maintenance, but there are those who have the option for to do so.
http://www.pccomponentes.com/corsair_cooling_hydro_series_h100i_gtx.html
thats a good one, or you can go for a H80 if you want to do a smaler one.

air compare to AIO it all depends on the case and how good airflow it have.
the more heat there is in the case, the hotter it will be, and harder it will bee to cool it down

and for example, if corsairs AIO starts leaking they will replace the damaged components if enny thing happens ( its what they have had in their guarantees before ).

this case cost a lill but from what ive seen there are menny that is happy whit it.
http://www.pccomponentes.com/corsair_obsidian_750d_airflow_usb_3_0_edition_negras.html

PSU single card -> 750W/760W ( gold/platinum )
2 cards -> 1000W ( platinum )
and get modulare ones and you will NOT regret putting a few extra in for doing that.

[MaRTiDoRe]

@Veovis ,Nate152 and kkn - Thanks for your Feedback!!

A few things I should have mentioned:

- Every time I build a PC I try to build it with the latest CPU/GPU along with decent MOBO/RAM/HDD etc. and make sure it lasts 4 years more or less. Then I sell the comp to any semi-gamer friend for ~300€ and purchase a completely new one. This is my 3rd whole new computer.

- Therefore, I don't plan any upgrades unless it's something extremely necessary or a huge technology change.

- I don't plan to SLI, at least not for this computer. I'm a videograme programmer myself (currently senior programmer at Gameloft) and I don't expect games to take true advantage of SLI (and I mean 80-90%, not crappy 40-60% and just in some games) any time soon. We will see in 4-5 years when I build a new one. Until then I will stick to a single powerful GPU.

- Current budget is arround 1.9-2k€ for the rig (without the screen).

Things I have learned/decided thanks to your Feedback:

- Case: I like that case! It's not a super fancy case with fashion shapes and yummy colors, but the vent system seems great.

It has fans in front and at the back, which means air flows in one direction. Some cases are just a cluster**** of fans pulling/pushing air in several directions which I think it's not optimal to evacuate the heat inside the case.

It's 50€ more than I wanted to spend in the case but I think it's worth it due to its quality.

- CPU: That video you posted shows stock 6600k (3.5GHz) vs stock 6700k (4.0GHz). But when you OC them and even the GHz, the performance of i5 is almost as good as the i7. This video does a benchmark with both OCed (minute 6:25 LINK). For this rig I'll go for the 6600k, lets see how games handle multiple cores and HT in a few years.

- RAM: I was struggling deciding wether to pick 16GB or 32GB. I was almost sure that 16GB was more than enought for gaming and 32GB was a bit of overkill (but we always want MOARR!! ) .

I will get 16GB of DDR4 @2400MHz ( G.Skill Ripjaws V Red DDR4 2400 PC4-19200 16GB 2x8GB CL15 ). I didn't Know RAM could be OCed (as I told you, totally newbie since I never OCed anything). I will try to OC it to 3200 as Nate mentioned.

- SSD: I didn't know of that 500GB 950 pro... F*** that SSD is sure FAST! It almost doubles the read speed compared to 850 EVO. The thing is, I have read** that for "normal PC users" you won't notice a big difference, and I agree with it. I mean, if you are hosting a server and moving files 24/7 then yes, but otherwise a "normal" SSD will be more than enough.

If I was to spend 350€ in a SSD instead of the 215€ planned I'd rather go to the 850 EVO 1TB, and that's what I will probably do.

**Conclusion section at the end of this page.

- PSU: I knew there where different qualities PSU (silver, gold Platinium) and I've never been sure why those differences. For me a PSU is just a a power supply with some wires (a noob sentence you will hear a lot haha) so I didn't see the point in spending more than 80€ in a PSU. I have always used "cheap" PSU's and I had 0 problems whatsoever.

Nevertheless, most ppl recomment going Gold/Platinium for medium/high-end PC's, so I will just trust you and go for a Gold one (140€). For a single GPU 750W should be enough.

http://www.pccomponentes.com/corsair_rm750i_750w_80_plus_gold_modular.html

- SCREEN: I have my screen half a meter away from me aprox. I once played in a 32'' screen and I had to move my head (not only my eyes) to see arround. Competitive players in LCS and other e-sports tournaments use 24'' max screens for a reason. For me bigger than 24'' would be uncomfotable. Also, 27'' for only 1080 sucks hard and more than 1080 in a 27'' is just out of my budget.

As for GSync... for me is a must. I'm not spending 2k€ in a gaming rig to see horizontal tearing in the screen or having to lock de FPS to 60 to avoid it... Horizontal tears appears when the GPU sends more frames per second than the frequency of the screen and mixes frames in a single render buffer. It's difficult to get more than 144 FPS in modern games, but defenitely possible (and I also play some not-that-modern games like Left 4 dead, Counter Strike and others).

With Gsync the screen and the GPU can "talk" to each other and the screen can adapt its update frequenzy to the one dictated by the GPU. Some people say that it procudes some latency and stuff and that they disable Gsync for competitive games - but I have never noticed it.

Things I'm still in doubt with:

Nate has recommended some cool stuff but all a bit expensive... with all your recommended stuff the total goes up to 3000€.

Is really worth it spending 700€ in a water cooling + MOBO? I don't even know what the vrm is. Could you please elaborate a bit more about the advantages for your 700€ system VS the 300€ system I had in mind? I want to learn and decide if for my purposes it's worth it or not. For me a 400€ MOBO (god... does it makes you the breakfast in the mornings? haha) is a bit of overkill.

- MOBO + Water cooling:

I'm pretty sure I'll go for the Corsair H110i GTX Cooling Hydro (not sure if it's compatible with that case, I hope yes), but I'm still in doubts with the MOBO. Could you please recommend me a MOBO in the range of 150-250€ for:

- a single 980 Ti card, no SLI
- Socket 1151 for 6600k
- the easier to OC the 6600k the better. I have 0 experience OCing. If there are complete guides for that Mobo in this forum or anyone is willing to personally help me through the forum to OC my 6600k and has experience with X Mobo that might be reason enought to go for it 😄
- compatible with DDR4 (16GB DDR4 2400)

- GPU: Matrix 980 TI is 220€ more expensive than the "basic" gigabyte one and the only difference I see is this:

Matrix: OC Mode - GPU Boost Clock : 1317 MHZ , GPU Base Clock : 1216 MHz
Gigabyte: OC Mode - GPU Boost Clock : 1291 MHz , GPU Base Clock : 1190 MHz

Am I missing something else? I won't spend 220€ for just +27 MHz!

I think it's an elitist product for those wanting to get the top of the top for their 6k€ rig. Not my case.

If I'm missing something to justify that price, please tell me and I might consider.

Thanks a lot for your feedback!! You cleared my mind a lot. Now I'm only in doubt with choosing a ~200€ MOBO, the benefits of that 700€ Mobo + cooling system (just in case I change my mind) and wether the +220€ for the 980 Matrix brings anything more than those +27MHz.

[Nate152]

The difference in psu ratings bronze, sliver, gold, platinum, titanium is the higher the rating the more efficient the psu is and the more it will save you on your electric bill. I did not know you were a game programmer that must be an awesome job ! I often wondered what was involved with programming a game and I bet it is ALOT of codes. I don't know though I'm just guessing here. 🙂

VRM's are Voltage Regulator Modules and are located to the left and top of the cpu, mosfets are part of the VRM's and convert the 12v voltage into the VDIMM that the cpu uses. In short the higher you overclock your cpu (that is to say the more voltage you add) the warmer they get. All motherboards have heatsinks for the mosfets/vrm's but the maximus viii formula gives you the option to liquid cool them, it's not a necessity and since you're looking at the H110i GTX that cooler is not expandable so...... What would you think of the Maximus VIII Hero Alpha? It's 100.00 u.s. dollars cheaper and has the RGB lighting feature. If you don't want the lighting feature then the regular hero VIII would be the one, it has better power delivery for overclocking than the lesser boards.

You can overclock the 980ti too, gpu's create a lot of heat especially when under 100% load and with a 144hz monitor yours is going to be working pretty good. There is a trade off between the reference 980ti and say the Strix or matrix. While the reference 980ti will exhaust the heat out of your case the gpu itself runs warmer. The Strix and Matrix run cooler but do not exhaust heat out of your case, with the corsair 750d it won't be a problem as that case has good airflow and you have options to add more fans if you want. The Strix will be the better overclocker as it has more phases with better power delivery. The Matrix will be the best overclocker getting over 1500MHz on the core as they are cherry picked to make the cut as a Matrix, but most if not all 980ti's can get to 1400MHz+.

Asus reference 980ti

https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/GTX980TI6GD5/

Strix 980ti

https://www.asus.com/us/Graphics-Cards/STRIXGTX980TIDC3OC6GD5GAMING/

Back to the psu, since you won't be going SLI a quality 750w psu will do just fine.

The 6700k is falling in price, it will allow you to overclock the BCLK further than the 6600k. If you can find one for a good deal snag it, it's also clocked higher than the 6600k.

You're going to have fun with your new pc, there are a lot of things you can overclock on the z170 platform, cpu,cpu cache, Ram, BCLK, System agent clock, I'm still learning it and working at it and getting good results.

If you like yummy colors as you say go for the hero viii alpha, here is the RGB lighting feature in action, there are different effects and you can change it to any color. Start here on page 4 if you haven't seen my thread.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?82540-Maximus-VIII-Formula/page4

Everything else you look good on.

[Veovis]

@MaRTiDoRe Well the reason why I asked about the card was to determine the number of spare PCI and M.2 slots you needed to decide if you really need a ATX motherboard vs an ITX (1 slot PCIe and 2 slots for ram, traditionally). This was to streamline the requirements and save you cash on the case (as most ITX towers are a lot less volume, but the cable management can be a bit of a nightmare) and motherboard. DDR4 has the ability to come in 16gb sticks, giving you that 32 in a 2 X16gb function than a 4 x8gb.

Just a warning about m.2. While it does allow for much faster speeds to the SSD, it also counts as a PCI slot and has been known to cut down graphics performance from a card. So the usual PCIe x16 will act as if its going through an X8 instead. (at least that's my understanding.)

As for Gsync? There's another way to prevent tearing without needing an expensive G-sync monitor. Enable Tripple buffering. This works without Vsync as well if you prefer to be twitchy.

As for a small high quality monitor at an affordable price? http://www.amazon.it/Dell-P2415Q-C-LCD-Monitor-23-8/dp/B00R420WNM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455056633&... (I went with the Italian site as that's what your links went to. So I'm assuming that's where you'll be buying from.) A 24in 3240 x 2180 IPS at 60Hrtz. If you're adamant about having at least 120, then hold out for that G-sync.

[iCTEKGUY]

Not sure about the need of a 1200w PSU, especially if you are going Skylake. I'm currently running my i7 @4.8Ghz 1.390v with no more than 224w at the wall! 980 ti is suppose to draw 250w, which even in SLi, my 850w EVGA G2 gives me a lot of headroom. I am sitting on a videocard purchase at the moment, waiting on AMD's Polaris or nVidia's Pascal. I'm liking the way Polaris power savings is looking, making my 850w investment look that much better...lol

Good luck deciding!

[kkn]

i have 2 27" monitors in front of me, i have the game on main and TS or monitoring programs on the second one. ( not saying you should do the same )
and i did go from a 47" tv to 27" monitor and im liking this.

[quark54]

anyone knows whats the % difference in temperatures between air and water cooling? Like, is it a big difference?

Not as big as you think. AIO water coolers tend to have higher RPM noisy fans. If you mount the same fans on an NH-D15/15S... the temperatures are much closer, and the D15 still beats many AIO coolers. The NH-D15 still competes very favorably with AIO.

The thing is, I have NEVER overclocked a CPU, so I have 0 idea of OC. I need a MOBO which is easy to OC the CPU or a MOBO with a lot of OC guides (I'm going to need them).

Asus 5 way optimization auto overclock works very well these days. If you wish to manually overclock, it's quite easy with only a few parameters that need to be adjusted.

Also, any personal opinion in G.Skill Ripjaws V Red DDR4 2400 PC4-19200 16GB 2x8GB CL15 ? It seems the most common option in http://www.pccomponentes.com/memorias_ddr4.html

Great RAM, I have a kit. I went for 3200 MHz. Don't forget, 2400 is only a small increase from the basic JEDEC frequency, barely an overclock at all. As for benefit, it depends on the application. To be honest, the price difference between 2400 - 3000 is only about £30 so why not?.

Also, does water cooling systems need more maintenance like changing the liquid every X time etc?

Yes, but some cooling liquids allow replacement, flushing etc only once per year. I'm a Noctua fan though, no pump to get noisy and fail, and ZERO chance of leaks.

PSU: Not sure yet but something arround 750W Silver or Gold

650 - 750 watts will place your load in the PSU's most efficient range most of the time. [Approximately 50%] So a good choice. Go for a QUALITY make, the PSU is the most important component!

I prefer multi-rail PSU's. Because there's less chance of damaging other components in your rig if there's a fault. Less chance because a multi-rail PSU has a much lower OCP trip point, so far less juice to damage other components, for example in a resistive load scenario. Single rail PSU's have a MUCH higher trip point, 70 amps or higher. With a multi-rail PSU though, you should consider where you plug in your PCIe cables, to make sure you have sufficient power for your graphics card.