Debate of the best MOBA game, is it LoL, DOTA 2, or something else? [Battle #3]

[Bahz]

UPDATE:
We'll be postponing the winners announcement to Dec 30th, the winners for Battle #3 will be posted up on ROG Website


The third battle is a new type of battle; it’s a “debate.” Share with us your thoughts on which game title you feel is the true champion of MOBA games. The obvious choices are LoL (League of Legends) and DOTA 2, but is there something else that belongs in this discussion?

This battle begins on December 8th 2016 at 8:00pm (UTC+8) and ends on December 22nd 2016 at 8:00pm (UTC+8).

Don’t just share your choice, tell us why and prove it with your passion for the game! Only one submission for this topic but you may discuss and debate with others to earn additional entries for the grand prize draw.

See prizes and complete rules below:

Biweekly battle topic prizes

1st Prize – ROG Goodies Box (filled with a ton of exclusive ROG swag)
2nd Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)
3rd Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)
4th Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)

Grand Prizes (draw will take place between January 5th 2017 – Janurary 11th 2017)


Rules

• Provide your answer on which game title you think is the best MOBA game and provide your reasoning and facts to back it up. Only entries that meet these criteria will be considered a valid entry.
  
• Limit one entry per person for the biweekly prize draw but no limit for additional entries for the grand prize draw
  
• Additional qualified replies/comments will earn you additional entries for the grand prize draw. All additional qualified replies/comments on this thread or the other 3 battle topic threads will be accepted as additional entries up until January 4th 2017
  
• Qualified replies/comments must have substance and not 1-2 word replies and are helpful in carrying forward the discussion. The eligibility of each reply/comment will be determined by our ROG forum admins.
  
• Winners will be announced on the ROG website 4 days after the conclusion of the battle (December 30th 2016).
  
• 
  

For complete rules for this campaign, please visit the official campaign thread:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88630-ROG-Forum-Battleground-Community-Campaign-OFFICIAL-T...

[HiVan]

Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. :rolleyes: Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails. 😄

That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes. 😛 😉

[angelanz2]

HiVan wrote:
Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. :rolleyes: Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails. 😄

That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes. 😛 😉

For heroes and abilities, to me dota is better.
1. Wars are easier to waged in LoL, i watched a couple games from my friend and youtube, for LoL you dont really need to spread up and split roles, you just go as a team and fight (this happens mostly before the creep spawn. Either you r a support or tanker, it really doesnt matter, group up and the war is on.*
2. LoL abilities are i think too powerful, evenwhen you are still level 1 which means you only have 1 skill. It is enough to injure heroes really bad. 1 skill and a couple of hits
3. Maps, Dota have trees and LoL have bushes which grants invisibility when youre in it. Now, it is mostly the same as MOBA legends (moba game for phone). If you compare it to Dota, trees are more challenging and provides better hideouts for heroes. With trees you can juke, you can take advantage of fog therefore making your enemy blind so they cant hit you. High ground and low ground also gives your enemies a hard time to chase you if you can make use of it pretty well. Different to LoL, although bushes grants invisibility, if your enemies are in it aswell, your cover is blown. That would be, well, not much of a help.
4. Managing. It is a lot harder to manage heroes and to coordinate in team fights and escape in Dota. For example, 1 hero is usually the bait to starting a war. You also need the right time to initiate otherwise you will mess up. It doesnt stop there. Usually you need ganks to help a bero get a kill. But it is never the case in LoL, if you are up 1 on 1 against a hero. You yourself is enough to easily kill your oppenent, vise versa.
5. Person skill and instinct. Dota wins the day yet again, with various items and skills, it is important to know when to realease or use it. You can also juke with items and skill, such as skills and items which gives you illusion of yourselves (manta, phantasm). By making your enemies chase the wrong you, that requires some handy work and fast response cause it requires you to first select your illusion and then make them run and let your enemy chase it, you also need to not forget about the real you. So yeah it is tough to control.
7. For now, i personally think that with the newly realeased patch 7.0, Dota still need a lot of trimming and balancing work. But it will always be the best for me. I also respect LoL for what it is.*
One more thing, in my country we play LoL from garena. When you are online (not in game) and want to chat to your friends, there is just no way for you to chat merely because no chat feature were given. It could be troublesome. Different to steam of course. And i dont know if it is available from other platforms.

[HiVan]

angelanz2 wrote:
For heroes and abilities, to me dota is better.
1. Wars are easier to waged in LoL, i watched a couple games from my friend and youtube, for LoL you dont really need to spread up and split roles, you just go as a team and fight (this happens mostly before the creep spawn. Either you r a support or tanker, it really doesnt matter, group up and the war is on.*
2. LoL abilities are i think too powerful, evenwhen you are still level 1 which means you only have 1 skill. It is enough to injure heroes really bad. 1 skill and a couple of hits
3. Maps, Dota have trees and LoL have bushes which grants invisibility when youre in it. Now, it is mostly the same as MOBA legends (moba game for phone). If you compare it to Dota, trees are more challenging and provides better hideouts for heroes. With trees you can juke, you can take advantage of fog therefore making your enemy blind so they cant hit you. High ground and low ground also gives your enemies a hard time to chase you if you can make use of it pretty well. Different to LoL, although bushes grants invisibility, if your enemies are in it aswell, your cover is blown. That would be, well, not much of a help.
4. Managing. It is a lot harder to manage heroes and to coordinate in team fights and escape in Dota. For example, 1 hero is usually the bait to starting a war. You also need the right time to initiate otherwise you will mess up. It doesnt stop there. Usually you need ganks to help a bero get a kill. But it is never the case in LoL, if you are up 1 on 1 against a hero. You yourself is enough to easily kill your oppenent, vise versa.
5. Person skill and instinct. Dota wins the day yet again, with various items and skills, it is important to know when to realease or use it. You can also juke with items and skill, such as skills and items which gives you illusion of yourselves (manta, phantasm). By making your enemies chase the wrong you, that requires some handy work and fast response cause it requires you to first select your illusion and then make them run and let your enemy chase it, you also need to not forget about the real you. So yeah it is tough to control.
7. For now, i personally think that with the newly realeased patch 7.0, Dota still need a lot of trimming and balancing work. But it will always be the best for me. I also respect LoL for what it is.*
One more thing, in my country we play LoL from garena. When you are online (not in game) and want to chat to your friends, there is just no way for you to chat merely because no chat feature were given. It could be troublesome. Different to steam of course. And i dont know if it is available from other platforms.

1. Yup, that's call cheesing. Grouping up in the first few minutes in the game to pick up some kills. But roles are clearly divided, mind you. There will always be a top laner, jungler, mid laner, adc, and support. (Given that everyone knows how the game works.) And also, someone would have to build tank, someone will have to build ability power, and someone should be attack damage. Things like that are basic stuff, it is in league. 🙂

2. Hmm, I really don't know how to react with this. There are some skills that are strong, true. But I don't think it's something that would easily kill a player. I mean, any player could dodge skills. Also, each champion has their kit different from others that is used differently as well. It all depends, honestly.

3.Bushes, too, can be used for juking and ambushes. It is true that it is not that useful if your enemy is in the bush as well, that is why zoning and proper positioning is important. While high ground and low ground, as you say, is helpful when enemies are chasing you, there are elements in League that does the same. For instance, the "jump" plant that displaces champions depending on the angle. Similarly, the scuttle crab provides movement speed when walked upon (if your teammate claimed it. This is somewhat an objective since it gives sight and mobility to those who kills it). So I think DotA and LoL has their own advantages.

4.This is just wrong in so many levels.First of all, you can also bait in League of Legends. What makes you think that you can't? It depends how the players utilize that champion. Secondly, timing. Timing is also needed in League of Legends. Knowing when to initiate, start combos, trade, retreat. Come on, how is timing not important in League of Legends? Or in any strategy games at least? Now, ganking. You say 1on1 against a hero is enough in LoL. No, that is not true, especially if one player counterpicked the champion of another player. It is not all the time that both players are equally matched. Sometimes someone will be bullied, have a hard time, fall of in cs, zoned, etc. That is when the jungler is useful. For ganks. It is true that a single person can another person, and vice verso. But you think that other person will let him/her do that easily? I think not. That is why junglers in League are there, to get & ensure kills for himself or for the laner.

5. Hmm... skills, you mean by the hero/champion? As mentioned earlier, League definitely wins this one. There are champions in League with two forms which has a unique set of skills. Moreover, summoner spells are present in LoL in which two can be picked to be used in the game. So I doubt that DotA wins in the diversity of skills. Moving on, items. I don't remember much of the items in DotA 2 but I'm just gonna point out the items in League with their special abilities. But we have items that is used for shielding, increasing movement speed for the whole team, 2 hextech items (one similar to force staff but with shorter range and damage, the other for shooting missiles that slows enemies, buffing an allied minion/creep, we also have an item that spawns a portal that produces mini creeps that could help pushing, item that builds momentum which increases movement speed, item that is used in forming bonds with another ally to improve stat (mostly used for the support and AD Carry), and more. 🙂

6. And lastly, this. I don't know anything about the new patch in DotA 2 so i'll let that be. It's funny you said Garena, because we use that third-party app as well. I think the countries in Asia use Garena to be able to play LoL. And sorry, but I don't believe the part that there is no chat provided. I can screenshot mine and show you that mine has chat in both Garena and League of Legends itself. I doubt that any online game, especially MOBAs, wouldn't provide any chat feature with other people.

[Sh3pathome]

HiVan wrote:
Continuation to my comment above, I exceeded by 2000 characters so I had to cut it short...

7. Watching as a Sport (DotA 2 = LoL) Firstly, it's SKT T1 that won the 3 championships. Samsung is the team they beat lately. Not consecutively though, Samsung White won in 2014 (but yeah, another korean team). Anyways, yes the bans are similar and picks as well. But doesn't the blame fall under the players/coach? I mean it was their decision to play it safe or not and go with the meta. Still, haven't you seen pro players pick out of the meta? Lucian Top by Huni, Riven Mid by Faker, Kennen ADC by Rekkles, MF support by GorillA. Come on, these are not meta, but they still use it competitively. There are also players picking utility mid, like Lulu or Zilean. There are others who are picking full AP support, Brand or Zyra. Top laners who can be tanky or bruiser. Junglers who are tanky or assassins. Idk why people are saying that the picks in LoL are repetitive. Don't blame the game, blame the players.

With your reference of a team unexpectedly performing well, I bring you Albus Nox. They are a wildcard team who were able to participate in Worlds and beat some of the big names out there. They proved that despite being a wildcard team, they are a force to be reckoned with. Nevertheless, they got eliminated and in the end SKT won the finals. But what, is it their fault they bested the other teams? Of course not. They put in so much time and effort in their scrimms and developing new tactics. Duke will always split push. Faker will get all the attention from the enemy team, thus freeing the other lanes of the pressure. Bang and Wolf will just farm but then start a duel with their opponents. And ofcourse, Bengi will have his own play style, mainly to help their ace midlaner, Faker.

And when you said clutch plays, it made me feel like DotA players doesn't appreciate League at all. No teamwork needed, no intellect needed, same teams performing very well, come on. :rolleyes: Well anyways, there are also moments in League pro play that keeps us at the edge of our seats. Getting cheesed for first blood, Baron fights, tower dives, 2v1 outplays, Dragon fights, counterganking, TP from both top laners, mid laner ganks, 1-man backdoor, heck, there's also a 5-man backdoor ignoring the enemy team, and ofcourse, the fails. 😄

That's all I can say guys. I respect that you think DotA 2 is better, I think LoL is better. Let's respect each other! Let's be careful in what we say, but yeah, this is a debate. It's alright to go savage sometimes. 😛 😉

HiVan, I've read most of your points and while some are valid.. But I can easily tell you probably haven't played Dota 2 much or have just played at a lower level and don't really understand it. Unless you have put as much time and effort into understanding Dota 2 as you have in LoL you can't really say you are "not biased". But the same thing can be said for me, I've probably played Dota 2 more than I have for LoL so maybe I'm a bit biased too.

My Lolking is here: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/293042
Dotabuff is here: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/86964173

I play on OCE server which sort of makes me trash but I 100% guarantee I could get Challenger on NA at least if given the chance. I wouldn't say I'm that good of a player, if somebody asked if I was good I'd say I am okay or decent. I think I can achieve results because I understand the games a lot, I don't play that much and I'm too old for these games now. 25 years old and been working full time for the past 5 years, got a GF who doesn't like me playing and tonnes of other things on the list too. Yet I've still had my share of competitive experiences, just came back from Korea last month after getting stomped in Dota 2 by teams like MVP Phoenix and TNC in WESG which is probably my last big tournament for MOBAs. However I still understand the games better than 99% of the player base (probably) and my opininon is purely based on my understanding from both games. You are basing your opinions having only played LoL and only heard of or watched Dota 2 and even though you can still have your say, it is similar to reviewing a restaurant based on one dish you have tried.

Well yeah there are a lot of buffs in LoL which does make it more diverse in a way but this is only one advantage compared to the many disadvantages. You only have 2 jungle camps on each side (excluding buffs) whereas Dota 2 has 5 on one side and 3 on the other so it's not really a relativity issue. The bad thing with LoL is that if you send your support jungler and mid laner to top lane for a gank / push you will probably lose the game. You lose out two waves mid and their jungler will probably pressure bottom, it will take your team about 15-30 seconds to get back to the lane depending on mid or bot. If you look at every LoL game between Koreans it is all very much the same, compare the CS, look at the laning stage, mid game everyone will just shove lane and group up. It's a simple formula that works almost everytime and hardly everyone does it differently. Just because somebody picks a champion that isn't "meta" doesn't mean there is variety, I saw the MF support and Lee Sin support at worlds and seeing everyone hyped up because of a 'different' champ pick into a role just shows how consistent the games have been.

Yeah I agree LoL is a lot more punishing and mistakes cannot be made, if you play in a high level game and make one mistake it is pretty much all over. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on how you look at it. I think it's downright stupid because there are no comeback mechanics to get back into the game, no high risk plays to help your team come back. In Worlds if a team was behind 10k gold they have a 99% chance of losing but in Dota 2 there are many ways to comeback and risky plays to be made, people come back from 20k gold difference all the time in Dota 2. If I'm playing league with a team and we are behind the same strategy will be called, push lanes group up ward baron and dragon etc. But in Dota 2 if you are behind, you can choose to do a smoke rotation, do a bait, gamble on a big rune, buy a divine rapier etc.

I worded that sort of wrong when I was talking about the roles, there is a lot more variety in Dota 2 trust me on this one. Also I played the meta where top laner would get smite and jungle too. Hearing you say double jungler as a variety of the game just shows how streamlined it really is. Did you know in Dota 2 you can even kill Roshan (Baron) at lvl 1 when the game starts? Riot sort of enforces the meta to shape the same way which confuses me as to what they wanna do with the game but that's a different story.

Competitive is not always about the money, sure that drives more people to compete but some players just want to win. I thought the competitive scene was pretty black and white, Dota 2 is far more complex and superior in many ways and LoL doesn't even come close. Believe me when I say that Dota 2 trumps LoL in the competitive scene and how games are played and the teamwork needed to win, it just isn't even fair to compare and debate about it. I did not say LoL didn't require teamwork, I just said that there isn't really much depth to it and sure there are many combos to pull off but they are all very basic, if you play in high level games everyone will take timers of flash, and it's so easy to just press r when you are Orianna and your Malphite is spamming his going in ping. These things should be a given and if you are making a professional team and one player cannot do this then that player shouldn't be in the team. The Chinese / Korean hybrid teams communicate in English and they are all Fob as hell. If you've watched any of the Mic check series half the time you hear the teams say in teamfights: "Talon Talon Talon, Lucian Lucian Lucian, Nice nice nice, naisu naisu naisu. Is that really teamwork and communcation? There is some of that in Dota 2 but there is way too much going on and way too much that can happen that communication is ALWAYS an issue I guarantee it.

If you are pushing high ground in LoL you only really need to watch out for their initiation and their tower. In Dota 2 however, you have a glyph to worry about, buy backs which effectively means that you have to be prepared to kill EVERYONE TWICE when taking high ground potentially. Late game the only thing you need to make sure you do in LoL is not get caught out, because being dead for 60 seconds could cost the game. In Dota 2 team fights late game can go crazy, with Aegis, cheese, refresher, divines and buy backs with BoT TPs there are just endless possibilities and you might even fight the same hero 3 times in one team fight, somebody could use a refresher orb to use their ulti twice, there are now "9" item slots so late game will only be more hectic. I could go on about how crazy things can get in Dota 2 compared to LoL but I'll hold off for now.

I did not base the advantage purely off the buy back, it is just an added feature allowing comebacks, big plays, a safety net and sometimes this could be the reason games go on for 3 hours. Buy back is not as simple as you think, a lot of big decisions are made or held off because it exists which affects the game a lot.

[HiVan]

Sh3pathome wrote:
HiVan, I've read most of your points and while some are valid.. But I can easily tell you probably haven't played Dota 2 much or have just played at a lower level and don't really understand it. Unless you have put as much time and effort into understanding Dota 2 as you have in LoL you can't really say you are "not biased". But the same thing can be said for me, I've probably played Dota 2 more than I have for LoL so maybe I'm a bit biased too.

My Lolking is here: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/293042
Dotabuff is here: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/86964173

I play on OCE server which sort of makes me trash but I 100% guarantee I could get Challenger on NA at least if given the chance. I wouldn't say I'm that good of a player, if somebody asked if I was good I'd say I am okay or decent. I think I can achieve results because I understand the games a lot, I don't play that much and I'm too old for these games now. 25 years old and been working full time for the past 5 years, got a GF who doesn't like me playing and tonnes of other things on the list too. Yet I've still had my share of competitive experiences, just came back from Korea last month after getting stomped in Dota 2 by teams like MVP Phoenix and TNC in WESG which is probably my last big tournament for MOBAs. However I still understand the games better than 99% of the player base (probably) and my opininon is purely based on my understanding from both games. You are basing your opinions having only played LoL and only heard of or watched Dota 2 and even though you can still have your say, it is similar to reviewing a restaurant based on one dish you have tried.

Well yeah there are a lot of buffs in LoL which does make it more diverse in a way but this is only one advantage compared to the many disadvantages. You only have 2 jungle camps on each side (excluding buffs) whereas Dota 2 has 5 on one side and 3 on the other so it's not really a relativity issue. The bad thing with LoL is that if you send your support jungler and mid laner to top lane for a gank / push you will probably lose the game. You lose out two waves mid and their jungler will probably pressure bottom, it will take your team about 15-30 seconds to get back to the lane depending on mid or bot. If you look at every LoL game between Koreans it is all very much the same, compare the CS, look at the laning stage, mid game everyone will just shove lane and group up. It's a simple formula that works almost everytime and hardly everyone does it differently. Just because somebody picks a champion that isn't "meta" doesn't mean there is variety, I saw the MF support and Lee Sin support at worlds and seeing everyone hyped up because of a 'different' champ pick into a role just shows how consistent the games have been.

Yeah I agree LoL is a lot more punishing and mistakes cannot be made, if you play in a high level game and make one mistake it is pretty much all over. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on how you look at it. I think it's downright stupid because there are no comeback mechanics to get back into the game, no high risk plays to help your team come back. In Worlds if a team was behind 10k gold they have a 99% chance of losing but in Dota 2 there are many ways to comeback and risky plays to be made, people come back from 20k gold difference all the time in Dota 2. If I'm playing league with a team and we are behind the same strategy will be called, push lanes group up ward baron and dragon etc. But in Dota 2 if you are behind, you can choose to do a smoke rotation, do a bait, gamble on a big rune, buy a divine rapier etc.

I worded that sort of wrong when I was talking about the roles, there is a lot more variety in Dota 2 trust me on this one. Also I played the meta where top laner would get smite and jungle too. Hearing you say double jungler as a variety of the game just shows how streamlined it really is. Did you know in Dota 2 you can even kill Roshan (Baron) at lvl 1 when the game starts? Riot sort of enforces the meta to shape the same way which confuses me as to what they wanna do with the game but that's a different story.

Competitive is not always about the money, sure that drives more people to compete but some players just want to win. I thought the competitive scene was pretty black and white, Dota 2 is far more complex and superior in many ways and LoL doesn't even come close. Believe me when I say that Dota 2 trumps LoL in the competitive scene and how games are played and the teamwork needed to win, it just isn't even fair to compare and debate about it. I did not say LoL didn't require teamwork, I just said that there isn't really much depth to it and sure there are many combos to pull off but they are all very basic, if you play in high level games everyone will take timers of flash, and it's so easy to just press r when you are Orianna and your Malphite is spamming his going in ping. These things should be a given and if you are making a professional team and one player cannot do this then that player shouldn't be in the team. The Chinese / Korean hybrid teams communicate in English and they are all Fob as hell. If you've watched any of the Mic check series half the time you hear the teams say in teamfights: "Talon Talon Talon, Lucian Lucian Lucian, Nice nice nice, naisu naisu naisu. Is that really teamwork and communcation? There is some of that in Dota 2 but there is way too much going on and way too much that can happen that communication is ALWAYS an issue I guarantee it.

If you are pushing high ground in LoL you only really need to watch out for their initiation and their tower. In Dota 2 however, you have a glyph to worry about, buy backs which effectively means that you have to be prepared to kill EVERYONE TWICE when taking high ground potentially. Late game the only thing you need to make sure you do in LoL is not get caught out, because being dead for 60 seconds could cost the game. In Dota 2 team fights late game can go crazy, with Aegis, cheese, refresher, divines and buy backs with BoT TPs there are just endless possibilities and you might even fight the same hero 3 times in one team fight, somebody could use a refresher orb to use their ulti twice, there are now "9" item slots so late game will only be more hectic. I could go on about how crazy things can get in Dota 2 compared to LoL but I'll hold off for now.

I did not base the advantage purely off the buy back, it is just an added feature allowing comebacks, big plays, a safety net and sometimes this could be the reason games go on for 3 hours. Buy back is not as simple as you think, a lot of big decisions are made or held off because it exists which affects the game a lot.

Hey, friend. Great comeback, first of all. Yes, I maybe biased. And let me just say, we have the same type of girlfriend, lol. You pointed out about the response time thing in LoL, but that's the whole point of it. Critical shot calling. Nevertheless, what you said is true -- Getting CS advantage, grouping up, shoving lanes, etc. But there are alot of games that is more on getting picks and ambushing instead of a boring game that plays safe. Still, I won't deny what you said is true. Yes, that is League. So yes, I think I am realizing what you are trying to say, competitive LoL is boring and LoL is better to be played casually. Hmm.

I still believe that games being more punishing in League is a good one. It's just to urge players to play as perfect as possible. I mean, being able to buyback is kinda "OP", wouldn't it? If players didn't have the money for a buyback then it's pretty much gg for them. Moving on, in League there are also exciting plays like the things you mentioned (a smoke rotation, do a bait, gamble on a big rune, buy a divine rapier etc.) -- baiting is also a thing in League (no doubt). Gambling in buying high risk & high reward item in LoL, nope, we don't have that. We do have faking Baron or Elder, or just doing it to bait the enemy team to a fight because it's more or less a victory if that particular team gets it. Also, clutch backdoors, avoiding vision and finding a way to the enemy nexus. All that things. Not be as good as your examples, but yeah, just want to say it. 🙂

Okay, I believe you with the part that DotA wins roles since you said it like you meant it. And yes, I think it was Ursa was the one capable of doing that level 1 Roshan? I still remember that in DotA 1. Or is there a different hero that can do that now? haha. Well anyways, maybe that's not possible in LoL because the Baron has a different reward. A buff that improves all your stat except your movement speed, also it empowers minions nearby you. So yeah, it would be kinda OP if you could claim Baron early in the game. Moreover, the whole team gets that buff.

With the competitive scene, okay, maybe DotA really wins. Maybe your right. As you said it like you meant it again, I am going to believe you. (Oh and also, I believe you have more experience than me) -- I would doubt however that the combos in League are basic. Believe me in this one, there are many ways to counter skills in League. But yeah, that's not something new in DotA either. And I laughed how you illustrated the way Koreans communicated. That is 100% true, rofl. But with that said, doesn't that signify how League is a very fast-paced game and how players should be quick both mentally and "physically"? And focusing on a player in League requires teamwork as well, setting up properly and peeling for your carry and things. Again, that is not new to DotA as well. But all of these things, I would just like to specify. 🙂

About the things about pushing high ground in LoL, I have nothing to say back. You are completely right, and you made me realize that. I am a League fan, but in the late game, all you need to do is avoid getting caught. And to push, just be careful about the tower damage and be sure to be careful about the opposing team's firepower.

All in all, thank you Sh3pathome. I have no doubt that you understand BOTH games very well. And I think, I should be too. I might play DotA 2 again sometime soon. For now, I am 100% on League's side. Thank you for enlightening me. 🙂

[danzzal]

Sh3pathome wrote:
First off I'll just say it now... Dota 2 is better, and I have played them both casually and competitively achieving challenger for two/three years in LoL and competiting in WESG APAC regionals for Dota 2 so maybe my word will be a lot more influential than others (those who only played one, I'm looking at you).

1. Heroes and Abilities - LoL > Dota 2

Both MOBAs have the typical 5v5 and a wide variety of heroes / champions to choose from, I always see people comparing them and in 90% of the comparisons made LoL players will say Dota 2 heroes are way more diverse and interesting whereas Dota 2 players will say LoL champions are more diverse and varied. General consensus is that the new and unknown game will always have the more interesting heroes. But having played both quite a bit I will say LoL takes the cake with this one, heroes with multiple forms like Jayce and Nidalee are always interesting and a lot of champions that can manipulate or use terrain to their advantage like Poppy or Anivia. To top it all off, runes / masteries / AP and AD scaling and summoner spells all create a huge variety for a way to play a certain champion. Sure, there are optimal ways to play a champion but there are always different ways to play a champion to suit your playstyle. AP and AD variants create 2 champions out of one like AD/AP malzahar or AD/AP shaco, other ways that utilize masteries and runes can create different builds for champions like tank/AD Rengar or Tank/AP/AD Ekko and even Tank Jayce. I mainly played Tank Jayce to get Challenger which says something about the variety.

In Dota 2 all heroes are generally played the same, you do see a few outliers like a vengeful spirit going carry or gyrocopter going support but the heroes themselves are the same, they just build different items. There are unique heroes like Meepo, Chen and Invoker but they don't really raise the bar too high. LoL also releases a champion every few weeks while Dota 2 can take months.

2. Map, Movements and Vision - Dota 2 > LoL

Both Dota 2 and LoL are better in their own ways. LoL has an extra big advantage option (Dragon) along with red and blue buffs which sort of adds a PVE element to it as well. Bushes are there to jump people and make jukes (BIG PLAYS) but the map is small and the trees and environment are two dimensional (meaning a tree has the same effect as a cliff they just look different). You can't really TP in LoL unless you have the summoner spell so rotations rely on you running to other lanes which generally allow the enemy team to capitalize on objectives / kills if they know where you are. Vision is important and with vision you can play around all the bad foreseeable outcomes which makes the game bland and plain boring (IMO), there just isn't much variety in what can happen.

In Dota 2 the map is bigger, contains more environment you can interact with (you can even cut trees to create paths). You can stack the neutral camps and save them for farming later and runes itself add a huge variety and depth to the game. With big movement items like blink and TP you can move around the map at any given moment (you can TP to allies). Smoke adds a huge feature in Dota 2 in which you aren't visible to the enemy unless you get close to them or a tower, there is scan to counteract this but the point is, you can be anywhere and the enemy can't 100% predict where you'll be and what you'll do. There was just a new update in Dota 2 adding shrines and changing the map around so there's a lot more to offer now.

3. Different approaches and strategies- Dota 2 > LoL

There is no doubt about this one, I'm sure everyone can agree with me, the world of Dota 2 is far more varied than one on the Summoner's Rift. Let's look at the typical draft first, in LoL it is almost the same every game, 1 top 1 mid 1 jungler and 1 support / ADC bot... You rarely see anything different and the worst it can get is a lane swap so top goes bottom and bottom goes top. There was a game where a Korean team ran an all mid push strat with Heimerdinger but I'll have more on that later. In Dota 2 there are way too many strategies that are used, sometimes 3 people in one lane, 2 people mid, 2 junglers... And the list goes on, but if you've watched or played Dota 2 you will know what I mean. Every game can start off differently and there isn't the exact same "lets trade farm for the first 15 minutes" that happens in all solo queue games in LoL.

4. Denying - Dota 2 > LoL

I have to bring this one up because the most common argument I have seen on the internet is "You can deny in Dota 2 but you can't in LoL", this is both true and false. In Dota 2 yes you can kill your own creeps so they give no gold and less exp to the enemy, you can't do this in LoL. However what you can do in LoL is indirectly deny creeps by pushing them to the enemy tower and get that to kill them for you, obviously when the enemy just went back or is roaming. You can also zone the enemy champion by standing on the other side of the way to deny too but this require you to be at a higher skill level than the opponent or have a better jungler. In Dota 2 "zoning" the offlaner is pretty much the same as denying him of farm so I feel this should count in LoL too.

5. Casual gaming - LoL > Dota 2

As a casual player, both games are similar in this respect as it lets you play with your friends and run strategies together or just play together as a group. In Dota 2 there are loads of strategies that will be viable and fun which makes the game fresh, you can run all carries, 4 junglers(????) do insane push or all in strats and they will all work decently well. I've seen all these random strategies that people use in LoL that work well like 5 man tps or double bruiser bot lane or something. They are all fun to do and you can pull it off against other casual players easily. You can talk and strategize with friends making different things work but they only work to a certain level. As a casual LoL / Dota 2 player there are lots of different ways you can play the game and most of them will be viable at that level of play. The LoL community is a LOT bigger and there are way more events to follow with LoL so maybe that will be better if you are in it casually.

6. Competitive gaming - Depends on what you are after

Dota 2 has the bigger prize pool, this year's International was almost $21 million USD, far superior to LoL's $5 million. The best in Dota 2 make a lot more money than everyone else and same goes for LoL but the curve isn't as steep. There are championship series for LoL which give players a set salary on the games they play during the Season if they manage to make it in making Riot the main sponsor for most people. In Dota 2 prize money will be the main source of income even though sponsors do pay out to some extent.

Dota 2 requires a lot of teamwork and trust whereas LoL just requires a lot of individual skill. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong but this is very true to a certain extent. In LoL you even have Korean players in NA / Chinese teams and they don't even speak the language fluently. I know these teams don't perform that great so you can argue that teamwork isn't needed but imagine a team of the 5 best players in the world, they can outskill and there wouldn't really be much teamwork needed because it is very easy to play with each other in the game as long as you have the information.

In Dota 2 there are so many things that can happen in the game and so many things for you to watch out for that make the game very hard, there are TPs, smoke, runes, blinks and even buy backs so you can't really visualize what's going to happen ahead of time, you just go with the flow with the information you have. In LoL the game is boring and has nothing much to offer, early game the only variable is the jungler and you can play around almost everything as long as you have the information and it's very easy to see the options. This is why Koreans are always the best in LoL (and SC2), because they rehearse a lot and can process information quick, it's easy to win when you can rehearse the same game plan 100 times and have no variables that make it go wrong (as long as you have skill to execute). If you see a jungler bottom you know the options are dive tower or get dragon so you can either play around top or countergank bot depending on what you have available. If the enemy top laner used tp you know he can't tp for 4 or 5 minutes so you can send your top laner to split push and maybe secure baron area. Vision can also decrease the number of various game playouts as well, if you can plan how long it will take an enemy to arrive somewhere or look at where can they be in the next 30 seconds you can play around that. If somebody is dead he is dead, no buy back so you also have information there whether you are stronger or not to take an inhibitor or something. Don't get me started on Dota 2... There is way too much that can happen and you can't rehearse anything you just have to trust your intuition and teammates.

7. Watching as a Sport - Dota 2 > LoL

Both games have hype and action, amazing crowds and massive prize pools. But I just need to say one thing here and that is: SKT1 won the past 3 LoL World Championships and the Koreans have dominated the scene. LoL games have the same strategies and picks/bans every single game it just feels like you are watching it more to see the players play not the actual game being played itself. The only game that stood out for me in LoL was the Heimerdinger all mid push strat which is definitely worth a watch. However Dota 2 is amazing in the eyes of a specator, there are still the main picks/bans but almost all heroes are picked and there are a LOT of strategies run with some of them being new and fresh. Dota 2 has become a great game to watch because there is so much variety and you never can predict who will win. Some of the most hyped up teams can come last place whereas a new random team like Ad Finem can come 2nd place in the Boston Major. So much can happen in a game that it will leave your mind puzzled and have you thinking what just happened. There are insane moments with buy backs, clutch spell usage, smokes and a lot more which makes every point of the game fun to watch. Meta is always changing and created even though patches stay the same, I think Wings were the first to run SD Luna and that itself created the illusion meta with SD being picked almost every game despite never being picked up before.

I've said way too much here but hopefully it truly shows how much better Dota 2 is overall, LoL can still be picked up as a if you have some friends playing it but if you are looking at a new game to start, Dota 2 is definitely the better MOBA.

A very well elaborated points from an experienced Dota 2 and LoL player. I've read all the points and I'm glad to see that we have the same perspective 🙂

[Xxzero0000]

In my opinion, i think LoL is better than DOTA2. I've played LoL for 2 years and played DOTA2 maybe only 10 games. For the gameplay,I think LoL harder than DOTA2. Coz, LoL prioritizing Skill first. For the example skillshot on LoL you have to aim the target manually. Another case in Dota2 you can use skillshot automatically (my experience playing Luna Moonfang). So, in this case i think DOTA2 easier than LoL.
Other reason why i love to play LoL is there are many interesting changes each patch(buff/nerf to champion skill/item) which is made that game more interesting. I dont know DOTA2 has same / more interesting features than LoL.
Thanks for reading my opinion, all comments welcome within reason.

Sorry for my bad English 

[Bahz]

Xxzero0000 wrote:
In my opinion, i think LoL is better than DOTA2. I've played LoL for 2 years and played DOTA2 maybe only 10 games. For the gameplay,I think LoL harder than DOTA2. Coz, LoL prioritizing Skill first. For the example skillshot on LoL you have to aim the target manually. Another case in Dota2 you can use skillshot automatically (my experience playing Luna Moonfang). So, in this case i think DOTA2 easier than LoL.
Other reason why i love to play LoL is there are many interesting changes each patch(buff/nerf to champion skill/item) which is made that game more interesting. I dont know DOTA2 has same / more interesting features than LoL.
Thanks for reading my opinion, all comments welcome within reason.

Sorry for my bad English 😞😞😞

Finally a LoL die-hard shows up, I hope the tides start turning back a little. I was expecting to see more 50/50 action between LoL and DOTA 2.

[angelanz2]

Bahz wrote:
Finally a LoL die-hard shows up, I hope the tides start turning back a little. I was expecting to see more 50/50 action between LoL and DOTA 2.

try out invoker, pudge, magnus, kunka,etc

[seirafrncsc]

Xxzero0000 wrote:
In my opinion, i think LoL is better than DOTA2. I've played LoL for 2 years and played DOTA2 maybe only 10 games. For the gameplay,I think LoL harder than DOTA2. Coz, LoL prioritizing Skill first. For the example skillshot on LoL you have to aim the target manually. Another case in Dota2 you can use skillshot automatically (my experience playing Luna Moonfang). So, in this case i think DOTA2 easier than LoL.
Other reason why i love to play LoL is there are many interesting changes each patch(buff/nerf to champion skill/item) which is made that game more interesting. I dont know DOTA2 has same / more interesting features than LoL.
Thanks for reading my opinion, all comments welcome within reason.

Sorry for my bad English 

Initiating a skill or skill shot in dota 2 depends on which hero/champion you are using, I play both games (around 4800 hrs on dota, around 500 hrs on LoL and to add, maybe around 6000 hours on dota 1 which is both LoL and dota 2's base game). LoL is fun and fast paced because the game mechanics are pretty much easier than dota.Dota/dota 2's game mechanics are harder, can't explain cause there are tons of reasons, there are even pro games reaching 2 hours. Also both games surely do those interesting changes which are both the same.

Conclusions is:

1. Both game came from 1 root which is dota 1.

2. I think it's not that valid to compare LoL and DotA 2 since they are different from each other, they have vast differences on game mechanics.

3. Both are fun

4. For me, Both LoL and DotA 2 communities are currently supporting each other, which is supposed to be from the start.

5. As of now, due to recent patches of both LoL and DotA 2, DotA 2 is currently the best MOBA game. This might change in the future since most games are evolving thru time.

Sidenote: Most Dota 2 Community is hating LoL because of the pendragon incident, if it didn't happen, both community will be at peace and will be called literally sister games because of their root.