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Debate of the best MOBA game, is it LoL, DOTA 2, or something else? [Battle #3]

Bahz
Level 12
UPDATE:
We'll be postponing the winners announcement to Dec 30th, the winners for Battle #3 will be posted up on ROG Website

60893

The third battle is a new type of battle; it’s a “debate.” Share with us your thoughts on which game title you feel is the true champion of MOBA games. The obvious choices are LoL (League of Legends) and DOTA 2, but is there something else that belongs in this discussion?

This battle begins on December 8th 2016 at 8:00pm (UTC+8) and ends on December 22nd 2016 at 8:00pm (UTC+8).

Don’t just share your choice, tell us why and prove it with your passion for the game! Only one submission for this topic but you may discuss and debate with others to earn additional entries for the grand prize draw.

See prizes and complete rules below:

Biweekly battle topic prizes
60890
1st Prize – ROG Goodies Box (filled with a ton of exclusive ROG swag)
2nd Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)
3rd Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)
4th Prize – Mafia 3 Game Code (digital game code)

Grand Prizes (draw will take place between January 5th 2017 – Janurary 11th 2017)
60891

Rules


  • Provide your answer on which game title you think is the best MOBA game and provide your reasoning and facts to back it up. Only entries that meet these criteria will be considered a valid entry.
  • Limit one entry per person for the biweekly prize draw but no limit for additional entries for the grand prize draw
  • Additional qualified replies/comments will earn you additional entries for the grand prize draw. All additional qualified replies/comments on this thread or the other 3 battle topic threads will be accepted as additional entries up until January 4th 2017
  • Qualified replies/comments must have substance and not 1-2 word replies and are helpful in carrying forward the discussion. The eligibility of each reply/comment will be determined by our ROG forum admins.
  • Winners will be announced on the ROG website 4 days after the conclusion of the battle (December 30th 2016).



For complete rules for this campaign, please visit the official campaign thread:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?88630-ROG-Forum-Battleground-Community-Campaign-OFFICIAL-T...
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285 REPLIES 285

DOTA 2. simple as that

markbugzz wrote:
DOTA 2. simple as that



Chill, it is the best for me and those who play.. hehe
For me, DOTA 2 is the best MOBA

markbugzz wrote:
DOTA 2. simple as that


😉 Enough said..

markbugzz wrote:
DOTA 2. simple as that


nice!
direct to the point but say something awesome like DOTA2 is number 1
😄

Dota2 best MOBA game of all at this time. In a relatively short period of time it has become a game-competition world scale. Tournaments collect tens of thousands of spectators in the hall and millions watching front of the screen, which is comparable to major sporting events! DOTA2 - Best MOBA game!

FilLis wrote:
Dota2 best MOBA game of all at this time. In a relatively short period of time it has become a game-competition world scale. Tournaments collect tens of thousands of spectators in the hall and millions watching front of the screen, which is comparable to major sporting events! DOTA2 - Best MOBA game!


agree!
"The International" was the most awaiting tournament every year and highlights of all. An epic match between pro's, unexpected gameplay and more awesome things!
😄

Yuten wrote:
Dota 2. Though my heart is begging me to actually say:"DOTA 2 EZ GGWP!!!"

Well let's breakdown what "best" means:
1) Overall enjoyment
2) Game design
3)Upkeep and Improvement
4)Visuals (Graphics)
5)Community and how it's controlled

I'm basing my analysis on these statistics supported by MY OWN thoughts.

I have sampled quite a lot of MOBA's but stuck with Dota 2 because it gave me a much better experience and enjoyment.

1) Being a warcraft all stars player Dota 2 has come a LONG way from it ancestor.
I enjoyed All stars because it was, at a stage, the only one of its kind and became very skilled at it. After sampling Dota 2 and various other MOBA games, my heart still stuck to my "1st love" simply because Valve took an amazing game... and made it better.
The graphics are better, mechanics are smoother and the community is larger... which means less waiting for matches and more playing.

2) The design of the game is flawless. There are very few bugs in the game and if one gets spotted, Valve quickly eradicates it to make the game fair. The fact that you have a hero that has no equal in the game makes it much more dynamic which contributes to anti picking (Making it way more competitive and sensitive).
There is NO hero that cannot be countered because of the vast spells and items each hero has and can gain respectively. In LoL, 90% of all spells are AOE and Skill shots (Target Point) which I REALLY enjoy but it becomes redundant when every player has the option for a "flash" and can use it at any given time, Dota 2 wins in this sense and ironically makes hero positioning that much more valuable. There is so much more I could talk about with the mechanics of Dota 2 but eventually people are gonna get bored of all the reading. One thing I particularly love about Dota 2 is that if you are a newbee, or if you are part of the Clan "Newbee", you both have an exact 50% chance of winning. I don't like the way a player gets better stats that helps in game just because you've played longer than others... Dota 2 take real skill and skill only to be good in the game, not relying on a "+2% attack speed with every hero because your player level is 9". All of the above I believe is better than any other Moba.

3)There are a lot of Moba''s but Dota definitely has the most updates. Sometimes annoying but necessary. When an update arrives it's usually visual items and alterations with hero skills and in game shop items. The alterations are VERY sensitively applied if Valve feel a hero/item is a bit too week/powerful and 90% of the time, the community agrees with the updates.
The visual items (sets) that come with the update are always gorgeous and most are affordable. What really caught me here is that there are THOUSANDS of items that are player created, giving people who have an artistic side a chance to grow their skill and make some money on the side. I have never been disconnected in Dota 2 due to server maintenance. If there is some to be done, you can continue your game and, once it's done, wait a very short while until the server is up and running again. One thing that I can say that I do NOT like about Dota 2 is that it takes a VERY long time to release new heroes, but with all my previous points I can wait :D.

4) Graphics, well I'll just summarize this one:
Best graphics in a MOBA with ratio to its visual theme (Artwork is closest to the aimed style).
Has the best GUI and Home screen vs other MOBAs.
Players can customize GUI/HUD, Map Theme, Heroes, Map Weather.
New to Dota 2 which I have yet to test is Dota VR which I expect will be amazing.

5) The Dota 2 community is full of all types of players like any MOBA. My main point in this section is to highlight that Dota 2 was only released in 2013, which makes it 3 years old, and it already has a much bigger player database than any other MOBA (including LoL which was released in 2009 making it 7 years old) If it wasn't the best MOBA, why are so many people playing it? xD
There are Bans and Mutes and AFK bans and so forth. Dota 2 has a control system that cannot really be abused. There are Mutes and Bans and etc... but it will only take effect if a pattern occurs with a player so, don't swear or feed too much cuz you'll get restricted :). If you feel you have been restricted for any reason, you can contact steam support and they will help you with how they feel is fair.

Overall Dota 2 is just an amazing game. I play every single day and I do so because it is extremely fun, I'm addicted to its competition, want to learn more about it and get better at it and meet new people from it.

I think many other people will agree with me after reading my essay xD.

Thank you for reading and all comments welcome within reason.


OH! I forgot to mention that Dota 2 is one of VERY few games in the world that has a server on every supported continent! Even in South Africa... 200 ping makes a HUGE difference. ^^

I've tried both LoL and Dota2 but just didn't really get into either of them all that much. I feel like their concept is along the lines of games I'd enjoy but perhaps I just haven't found the one that really gives me the enjoyment that so many other gamers seem to receive from them.

First off I'll just say it now... Dota 2 is better, and I have played them both casually and competitively achieving challenger for two/three years in LoL and competiting in WESG APAC regionals for Dota 2 so maybe my word will be a lot more influential than others (those who only played one, I'm looking at you).

1. Heroes and Abilities - LoL > Dota 2

Both MOBAs have the typical 5v5 and a wide variety of heroes / champions to choose from, I always see people comparing them and in 90% of the comparisons made LoL players will say Dota 2 heroes are way more diverse and interesting whereas Dota 2 players will say LoL champions are more diverse and varied. General consensus is that the new and unknown game will always have the more interesting heroes. But having played both quite a bit I will say LoL takes the cake with this one, heroes with multiple forms like Jayce and Nidalee are always interesting and a lot of champions that can manipulate or use terrain to their advantage like Poppy or Anivia. To top it all off, runes / masteries / AP and AD scaling and summoner spells all create a huge variety for a way to play a certain champion. Sure, there are optimal ways to play a champion but there are always different ways to play a champion to suit your playstyle. AP and AD variants create 2 champions out of one like AD/AP malzahar or AD/AP shaco, other ways that utilize masteries and runes can create different builds for champions like tank/AD Rengar or Tank/AP/AD Ekko and even Tank Jayce. I mainly played Tank Jayce to get Challenger which says something about the variety.

In Dota 2 all heroes are generally played the same, you do see a few outliers like a vengeful spirit going carry or gyrocopter going support but the heroes themselves are the same, they just build different items. There are unique heroes like Meepo, Chen and Invoker but they don't really raise the bar too high. LoL also releases a champion every few weeks while Dota 2 can take months.

2. Map, Movements and Vision - Dota 2 > LoL

Both Dota 2 and LoL are better in their own ways. LoL has an extra big advantage option (Dragon) along with red and blue buffs which sort of adds a PVE element to it as well. Bushes are there to jump people and make jukes (BIG PLAYS) but the map is small and the trees and environment are two dimensional (meaning a tree has the same effect as a cliff they just look different). You can't really TP in LoL unless you have the summoner spell so rotations rely on you running to other lanes which generally allow the enemy team to capitalize on objectives / kills if they know where you are. Vision is important and with vision you can play around all the bad foreseeable outcomes which makes the game bland and plain boring (IMO), there just isn't much variety in what can happen.

In Dota 2 the map is bigger, contains more environment you can interact with (you can even cut trees to create paths). You can stack the neutral camps and save them for farming later and runes itself add a huge variety and depth to the game. With big movement items like blink and TP you can move around the map at any given moment (you can TP to allies). Smoke adds a huge feature in Dota 2 in which you aren't visible to the enemy unless you get close to them or a tower, there is scan to counteract this but the point is, you can be anywhere and the enemy can't 100% predict where you'll be and what you'll do. There was just a new update in Dota 2 adding shrines and changing the map around so there's a lot more to offer now.

3. Different approaches and strategies- Dota 2 > LoL

There is no doubt about this one, I'm sure everyone can agree with me, the world of Dota 2 is far more varied than one on the Summoner's Rift. Let's look at the typical draft first, in LoL it is almost the same every game, 1 top 1 mid 1 jungler and 1 support / ADC bot... You rarely see anything different and the worst it can get is a lane swap so top goes bottom and bottom goes top. There was a game where a Korean team ran an all mid push strat with Heimerdinger but I'll have more on that later. In Dota 2 there are way too many strategies that are used, sometimes 3 people in one lane, 2 people mid, 2 junglers... And the list goes on, but if you've watched or played Dota 2 you will know what I mean. Every game can start off differently and there isn't the exact same "lets trade farm for the first 15 minutes" that happens in all solo queue games in LoL.

4. Denying - Dota 2 > LoL

I have to bring this one up because the most common argument I have seen on the internet is "You can deny in Dota 2 but you can't in LoL", this is both true and false. In Dota 2 yes you can kill your own creeps so they give no gold and less exp to the enemy, you can't do this in LoL. However what you can do in LoL is indirectly deny creeps by pushing them to the enemy tower and get that to kill them for you, obviously when the enemy just went back or is roaming. You can also zone the enemy champion by standing on the other side of the way to deny too but this require you to be at a higher skill level than the opponent or have a better jungler. In Dota 2 "zoning" the offlaner is pretty much the same as denying him of farm so I feel this should count in LoL too.

5. Casual gaming - LoL > Dota 2

As a casual player, both games are similar in this respect as it lets you play with your friends and run strategies together or just play together as a group. In Dota 2 there are loads of strategies that will be viable and fun which makes the game fresh, you can run all carries, 4 junglers(????) do insane push or all in strats and they will all work decently well. I've seen all these random strategies that people use in LoL that work well like 5 man tps or double bruiser bot lane or something. They are all fun to do and you can pull it off against other casual players easily. You can talk and strategize with friends making different things work but they only work to a certain level. As a casual LoL / Dota 2 player there are lots of different ways you can play the game and most of them will be viable at that level of play. The LoL community is a LOT bigger and there are way more events to follow with LoL so maybe that will be better if you are in it casually.

6. Competitive gaming - Depends on what you are after

Dota 2 has the bigger prize pool, this year's International was almost $21 million USD, far superior to LoL's $5 million. The best in Dota 2 make a lot more money than everyone else and same goes for LoL but the curve isn't as steep. There are championship series for LoL which give players a set salary on the games they play during the Season if they manage to make it in making Riot the main sponsor for most people. In Dota 2 prize money will be the main source of income even though sponsors do pay out to some extent.

Dota 2 requires a lot of teamwork and trust whereas LoL just requires a lot of individual skill. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong but this is very true to a certain extent. In LoL you even have Korean players in NA / Chinese teams and they don't even speak the language fluently. I know these teams don't perform that great so you can argue that teamwork isn't needed but imagine a team of the 5 best players in the world, they can outskill and there wouldn't really be much teamwork needed because it is very easy to play with each other in the game as long as you have the information.

In Dota 2 there are so many things that can happen in the game and so many things for you to watch out for that make the game very hard, there are TPs, smoke, runes, blinks and even buy backs so you can't really visualize what's going to happen ahead of time, you just go with the flow with the information you have. In LoL the game is boring and has nothing much to offer, early game the only variable is the jungler and you can play around almost everything as long as you have the information and it's very easy to see the options. This is why Koreans are always the best in LoL (and SC2), because they rehearse a lot and can process information quick, it's easy to win when you can rehearse the same game plan 100 times and have no variables that make it go wrong (as long as you have skill to execute). If you see a jungler bottom you know the options are dive tower or get dragon so you can either play around top or countergank bot depending on what you have available. If the enemy top laner used tp you know he can't tp for 4 or 5 minutes so you can send your top laner to split push and maybe secure baron area. Vision can also decrease the number of various game playouts as well, if you can plan how long it will take an enemy to arrive somewhere or look at where can they be in the next 30 seconds you can play around that. If somebody is dead he is dead, no buy back so you also have information there whether you are stronger or not to take an inhibitor or something. Don't get me started on Dota 2... There is way too much that can happen and you can't rehearse anything you just have to trust your intuition and teammates.

7. Watching as a Sport - Dota 2 > LoL

Both games have hype and action, amazing crowds and massive prize pools. But I just need to say one thing here and that is: SKT1 won the past 3 LoL World Championships and the Koreans have dominated the scene. LoL games have the same strategies and picks/bans every single game it just feels like you are watching it more to see the players play not the actual game being played itself. The only game that stood out for me in LoL was the Heimerdinger all mid push strat which is definitely worth a watch. However Dota 2 is amazing in the eyes of a specator, there are still the main picks/bans but almost all heroes are picked and there are a LOT of strategies run with some of them being new and fresh. Dota 2 has become a great game to watch because there is so much variety and you never can predict who will win. Some of the most hyped up teams can come last place whereas a new random team like Ad Finem can come 2nd place in the Boston Major. So much can happen in a game that it will leave your mind puzzled and have you thinking what just happened. There are insane moments with buy backs, clutch spell usage, smokes and a lot more which makes every point of the game fun to watch. Meta is always changing and created even though patches stay the same, I think Wings were the first to run SD Luna and that itself created the illusion meta with SD being picked almost every game despite never being picked up before.

I've said way too much here but hopefully it truly shows how much better Dota 2 is overall, LoL can still be picked up as a if you have some friends playing it but if you are looking at a new game to start, Dota 2 is definitely the better MOBA.

Sh3pathome wrote:
First off I'll just say it now... Dota 2 is better, and I have played them both casually and competitively achieving challenger for two/three years in LoL and competiting in WESG APAC regionals for Dota 2 so maybe my word will be a lot more influential than others (those who only played one, I'm looking at you).

1. Heroes and Abilities - LoL > Dota 2

Both MOBAs have the typical 5v5 and a wide variety of heroes / champions to choose from, I always see people comparing them and in 90% of the comparisons made LoL players will say Dota 2 heroes are way more diverse and interesting whereas Dota 2 players will say LoL champions are more diverse and varied. General consensus is that the new and unknown game will always have the more interesting heroes. But having played both quite a bit I will say LoL takes the cake with this one, heroes with multiple forms like Jayce and Nidalee are always interesting and a lot of champions that can manipulate or use terrain to their advantage like Poppy or Anivia. To top it all off, runes / masteries / AP and AD scaling and summoner spells all create a huge variety for a way to play a certain champion. Sure, there are optimal ways to play a champion but there are always different ways to play a champion to suit your playstyle. AP and AD variants create 2 champions out of one like AD/AP malzahar or AD/AP shaco, other ways that utilize masteries and runes can create different builds for champions like tank/AD Rengar or Tank/AP/AD Ekko and even Tank Jayce. I mainly played Tank Jayce to get Challenger which says something about the variety.

In Dota 2 all heroes are generally played the same, you do see a few outliers like a vengeful spirit going carry or gyrocopter going support but the heroes themselves are the same, they just build different items. There are unique heroes like Meepo, Chen and Invoker but they don't really raise the bar too high. LoL also releases a champion every few weeks while Dota 2 can take months.

2. Map, Movements and Vision - Dota 2 > LoL

Both Dota 2 and LoL are better in their own ways. LoL has an extra big advantage option (Dragon) along with red and blue buffs which sort of adds a PVE element to it as well. Bushes are there to jump people and make jukes (BIG PLAYS) but the map is small and the trees and environment are two dimensional (meaning a tree has the same effect as a cliff they just look different). You can't really TP in LoL unless you have the summoner spell so rotations rely on you running to other lanes which generally allow the enemy team to capitalize on objectives / kills if they know where you are. Vision is important and with vision you can play around all the bad foreseeable outcomes which makes the game bland and plain boring (IMO), there just isn't much variety in what can happen.

In Dota 2 the map is bigger, contains more environment you can interact with (you can even cut trees to create paths). You can stack the neutral camps and save them for farming later and runes itself add a huge variety and depth to the game. With big movement items like blink and TP you can move around the map at any given moment (you can TP to allies). Smoke adds a huge feature in Dota 2 in which you aren't visible to the enemy unless you get close to them or a tower, there is scan to counteract this but the point is, you can be anywhere and the enemy can't 100% predict where you'll be and what you'll do. There was just a new update in Dota 2 adding shrines and changing the map around so there's a lot more to offer now.

3. Different approaches and strategies- Dota 2 > LoL

There is no doubt about this one, I'm sure everyone can agree with me, the world of Dota 2 is far more varied than one on the Summoner's Rift. Let's look at the typical draft first, in LoL it is almost the same every game, 1 top 1 mid 1 jungler and 1 support / ADC bot... You rarely see anything different and the worst it can get is a lane swap so top goes bottom and bottom goes top. There was a game where a Korean team ran an all mid push strat with Heimerdinger but I'll have more on that later. In Dota 2 there are way too many strategies that are used, sometimes 3 people in one lane, 2 people mid, 2 junglers... And the list goes on, but if you've watched or played Dota 2 you will know what I mean. Every game can start off differently and there isn't the exact same "lets trade farm for the first 15 minutes" that happens in all solo queue games in LoL.

4. Denying - Dota 2 > LoL

I have to bring this one up because the most common argument I have seen on the internet is "You can deny in Dota 2 but you can't in LoL", this is both true and false. In Dota 2 yes you can kill your own creeps so they give no gold and less exp to the enemy, you can't do this in LoL. However what you can do in LoL is indirectly deny creeps by pushing them to the enemy tower and get that to kill them for you, obviously when the enemy just went back or is roaming. You can also zone the enemy champion by standing on the other side of the way to deny too but this require you to be at a higher skill level than the opponent or have a better jungler. In Dota 2 "zoning" the offlaner is pretty much the same as denying him of farm so I feel this should count in LoL too.

5. Casual gaming - LoL > Dota 2

As a casual player, both games are similar in this respect as it lets you play with your friends and run strategies together or just play together as a group. In Dota 2 there are loads of strategies that will be viable and fun which makes the game fresh, you can run all carries, 4 junglers(????) do insane push or all in strats and they will all work decently well. I've seen all these random strategies that people use in LoL that work well like 5 man tps or double bruiser bot lane or something. They are all fun to do and you can pull it off against other casual players easily. You can talk and strategize with friends making different things work but they only work to a certain level. As a casual LoL / Dota 2 player there are lots of different ways you can play the game and most of them will be viable at that level of play. The LoL community is a LOT bigger and there are way more events to follow with LoL so maybe that will be better if you are in it casually.

6. Competitive gaming - Depends on what you are after

Dota 2 has the bigger prize pool, this year's International was almost $21 million USD, far superior to LoL's $5 million. The best in Dota 2 make a lot more money than everyone else and same goes for LoL but the curve isn't as steep. There are championship series for LoL which give players a set salary on the games they play during the Season if they manage to make it in making Riot the main sponsor for most people. In Dota 2 prize money will be the main source of income even though sponsors do pay out to some extent.

Dota 2 requires a lot of teamwork and trust whereas LoL just requires a lot of individual skill. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong but this is very true to a certain extent. In LoL you even have Korean players in NA / Chinese teams and they don't even speak the language fluently. I know these teams don't perform that great so you can argue that teamwork isn't needed but imagine a team of the 5 best players in the world, they can outskill and there wouldn't really be much teamwork needed because it is very easy to play with each other in the game as long as you have the information.

In Dota 2 there are so many things that can happen in the game and so many things for you to watch out for that make the game very hard, there are TPs, smoke, runes, blinks and even buy backs so you can't really visualize what's going to happen ahead of time, you just go with the flow with the information you have. In LoL the game is boring and has nothing much to offer, early game the only variable is the jungler and you can play around almost everything as long as you have the information and it's very easy to see the options. This is why Koreans are always the best in LoL (and SC2), because they rehearse a lot and can process information quick, it's easy to win when you can rehearse the same game plan 100 times and have no variables that make it go wrong (as long as you have skill to execute). If you see a jungler bottom you know the options are dive tower or get dragon so you can either play around top or countergank bot depending on what you have available. If the enemy top laner used tp you know he can't tp for 4 or 5 minutes so you can send your top laner to split push and maybe secure baron area. Vision can also decrease the number of various game playouts as well, if you can plan how long it will take an enemy to arrive somewhere or look at where can they be in the next 30 seconds you can play around that. If somebody is dead he is dead, no buy back so you also have information there whether you are stronger or not to take an inhibitor or something. Don't get me started on Dota 2... There is way too much that can happen and you can't rehearse anything you just have to trust your intuition and teammates.

7. Watching as a Sport - Dota 2 > LoL

Both games have hype and action, amazing crowds and massive prize pools. But I just need to say one thing here and that is: Samsung SKT1 won the past 3 LoL World Championships and the Koreans have dominated the scene. LoL games have the same strategies and picks/bans every single game it just feels like you are watching it more to see the players play not the actual game being played itself. The only game that stood out for me in LoL was the Heimerdinger all mid push strat which is definitely worth a watch. However Dota 2 is amazing in the eyes of a specator, there are still the main picks/bans but almost all heroes are picked and there are a LOT of strategies run with some of them being new and fresh. Dota 2 has become a great game to watch because there is so much variety and you never can predict who will win. Some of the most hyped up teams can come last place whereas a new random team like Ad Finem can come 2nd place in the Boston Major. So much can happen in a game that it will leave your mind puzzled and have you thinking what just happened. There are insane moments with buy backs, clutch spell usage, smokes and a lot more which makes every point of the game fun to watch. Meta is always changing and created even though patches stay the same, I think Wings were the first to run SD Luna and that itself created the illusion meta with SD being picked almost every game despite never being picked up before.

I've said way too much here but hopefully it truly shows how much better Dota 2 is overall, LoL can still be picked up as a if you have some friends playing it but if you are looking at a new game to start, Dota 2 is definitely the better MOBA.



Hello Sh3pathome, great analysis may I just say. I have made my own version of your analysis, read it if you feel like it. Let me just say that I'm siding with League, call me bias or whatsoever, these are all my opinions. 🙂

1.Heroes and Abilities (LoL > Dota 2) -- Yes, League of Legends definitely won this. Providing champions with two forms truly provides a unique experience for players: Jayce, Nidalee, Elise, Gnar, Kled (kinda). And yes there are those champs who makes use of terrains or interacts with it, Poppy (uses wall), Anivia (idk), Talon (now parkours over walls), Skarner (has runes all over the jungle), Bard (Portal), Ivern (kinda, creates bushes), etc. :cool: And yes, summoner spells, masteries, runes, builds (hybrid, full ap, full ad, tank) also mix it all up. I believe that playing champions ALONE is a HUGE win for League, this is why many people find the game so interesting and so fun. Before considering the map itself and strategies to use, the entertainment you get from playing champions alone is what makes League so fun. And might I just say, I think the whole point of only providing 10 free champions weekly, while purchasing other champions with in-game currency (IP or RP) is to push others to stick to a few champs first and master them. Instead of picking random champions every now and then, it is better to get the hang of a few number of champions first, isn't that right? :rolleyes: And yes, it is also a good way for them to earn money. But still, I never used any real money to buy all of the champs, I earned IP through hardwork and constant playing. Buying champions through IP will make you appreciate them, I only get to buy a new champ every few days, and when I do, I test it out immediately. With the hardwork of earning IP, I appreciated that champ. That is all. 🙂 (Respect that you got Challenger with Tank Jayce, BTW what's your IGN and what server are you in?)

2. Map, Movements and Vision (LoL > DotA 2) -- Hmm. Yes, the SEVERAL (I have to emphasize this 🐵 different buffs provide a more diverse gameplay: Red buff (burn damage + heal,), Blue buff (Mana regeneration), 4 Elemental Dragons (Mountain, Ocean, Cloud, and Infernal), Rift Herald (single player buff), and Baron (team buff; those who are alive). Compared to DotA's buffs which is, single? Or have they added more? Even if you include the runes in the river I still think LoL wins this one.

Yes, the map is small and the trees and cliffs are pretty much the same. Just different texture and different sizes. But doesn't the implementation of the bushes match this disadvantage? DotA 2 has interactive trees while LoL has bushes. Doesn't that make them equal? BUT, League introduced the interactable plants in League (Vision plant, "jump" plant, and the honeyfruit plant) -- you can also add the scuttler in the river that provides vision here. 🙂

DotA has a bigger map, okay, but I believe LoL is proportionally right. Nevertheless, i'll give this one to DotA.

TP & Rotations? I really think it's not that bad that teleportation is limited in League. It makes the it more crucial to spend it wisely, there are plays that baits the enemy of using their teleport thus giving the other person to freely push. Also, it is also critical in backing when going to shop. In DotA there is a shop in the top and bottom side and you can just buy teleport scrolls so that's what makes it boring (IMO). Also, they have couriers in DotA to bring your items. So you can just stay in lane almost forever? But in LoL, it makes you choose wisely: when to use your teleport spell, when to back, and when to push lane. I maybe biased, but I think LoL wins this one.

Vision? you said that in League vision makes it boring because players can avoid and foresee the bad outcomes. Actually that good in a MOBA, vision control. It's still strategy. Nevertheless, there are oracle lenses and control wards that counter the vision of the enemy. So it all depends on how well you place wards, how you destroy the enemy's wards, and signalling to your jungler where the enemy placed their ward. Vision wins the game, mostly. But vision is not something that cannot be bypassed. I'm sure that this doesn't make the game boring, but rather makes it more challenging to be honest. 🙂

I believe LoL wins this one. 🙂

3.Different approaches and strategies (Dota 2 =/= LoL) Here, you talk about the roles. I don't know much about the roles in DotA in both casual gaming and professional gaming. In League it's pretty much standard 1 top, 1 jungler, 1 mid, 2 bot. Actually in LoL, there is a strat that there are 2 junglers... but League removed that by raising the bounty of getting the first tower in the game. Thus raising the importance of pushing faster instead of jungling faster. You said "trading farm in the first 15mins." occur in many LoL games, I cannot say that this is not true. But the double jungle in DotA actually portrays this exchanging of farm. And with LoL removing the double jungle, that fixed the trading of farm by the junglers. Also, with the plants made in LoL it gives the junglers more way to steal farm or even hunt the other jungler. ("jump" plant in surprising the other jungler is really used now).

you decide who wins this one.

4. Denying (Dota 2 > LoL) -- you take this one. there's nothing to defend here. lol.

5. Casual gaming (Dota 2 = LoL) I wouldn't say that League wins this one. (Yes, i'm not biased) It is true that mixing it up with friends is really fun. Also, League has a big community indeed. But this community itself is what brings League down as well. There are many players in League who are really toxic and trolls that aren't completely "reformed" by the tribunal. Some doesn't get banned, while others get banned even if they don't deserve it. Yes, that is sickening. So I won't give the win to LoL. 🙂

6. Competitive gaming (?? > ??) -- this is why I don't get. it isn't fair for League to compare the money in DotA with it. I mean, DotA is already well known because of DotA 1, and DotA 2 is obviously the sequel. It has an advantage with reputation so it's not a surprise that it has advantage in exposure and money. I think if LoL was released in the same time as DotA 1, I think it would compete rather better than it has now.

LoL + individual skill, here we go again. This is not true to be honest. Teamwork, like DotA 2, is needed in League. For instance, without teamwork, one cannot simply push all lanes, one cannot simply go for the objectives (turrets, inhibitors, buffs), one cannot simply hunt the other players, one jungler cannot simply get a gank without coordinating with the lane he/she is ganking (the jungler would have to know where the wards are set up, as well as what summoner spells the opponents have). What if the opponent in bot lane both has flash, that would turn the tides for them. Or even, what if the enemy top lane has TP, while their ally top lane doesn't? That will also result to a countergank. There are also champion combos that is crucial in clashes. Orianna ult + Yas ult combo. What if the other person's ult is on cooldown, or rather what if the other player doesn't want to initiate? The players in League needs teamwork, synergy, and communication. Saying otherwise is just not right. Yes, there are koreans in NA teams, but they are also required to learn speaking in English or atleast know the simple words of it. To address this, aren't there pings in League? As well as DotA? This is a form of communication, right? And communicating is, I believe, a form of teamwork between players. Anyhow, there are videos made by teams wherein the korean players are urged to learn to speak in English. For instance, Huni when he joined Fnatic or Immortals he was aided in learning English so that he would communicate with the European/American players in the team. The team helped him as well as his Korean colleague Reignover. I'm assuming this is enough?

Again, you mentioned vision, but this can be countered with control wards and oracle lenses. Also, invisibility and camouflage are two different things now in League. 🙂

Lastly, the buyback. This caught my attention. Saying that this is an advantage for DotA is being biased. You're saying that being able to buyback spices up the game and makes it more "diverse". Meanwhile, I think not being able to buyback tests the players to be more careful in shot calling or else it will result to the enemy team getting the objectives. Rather than, "Oh I died. No problem, i'll just buyback because i have the money. Oh the enemy player doesn't have money? Well, good for me". That's the way I look at it, but I'm respecting DotA 2 players, I'm not against the buyback. But why look at it as an advantage over League?