Asus x670e-i Shuts Down Abruptly When Using Thunderbolt Devices via USB 4

[loup]

I built my PC with the following components:

• Motherboard: Asus ROG x670e-i
• CPU: Ryzen 7 7800x3d
• GPU: RTX 4080 Super FE
• RAM: Kingston Fury Beast 64GB 6000MHz CL36 AMD EXPO
• PSU: Corsair SF750
• Low-profile air cooler
• Case: Formd T1 (+ 2x Phanteks T30 fans)

I specifically chose this motherboard for its Thunderbolt support to switch all my peripherals between my gaming PC and my MacBook Pro. Here is my setup:

Gaming PC:

• PSU to power outlet
• USB 4.0 to Caldigit TS4+ hub:
  • 360Hz monitor (DisplayPort port)
  • 75Hz monitor (USB-C port)
  • Audio interface UAD Apollo x4 Thunderbolt 3 (Thunderbolt 4 port)

So, I have only one Thunderbolt 4 cable connected to my PC.

However, the computer has crashed several times, shutting down abruptly as if unplugged. After each crash, the audio interface connected via Thunderbolt stops working, and I struggle to restart the computer. When the computer crashes, I cannot restart it using the power button. I have to reset the CMOS to get it to boot again.

Crashes occur when the PC is under load. For example, watching YouTube videos is fine, but playing a game causes a crash. To diagnose the issue, I used "userdiag". Running userdiag in extreme mode with my Thunderbolt setup, the computer crashes within minutes. Running the same test with no Thunderbolt devices connected (only a monitor via DisplayPort and a keyboard and mouse directly to the motherboard) completes successfully: userdiag report.

Thus, the problem seems to be related to Thunderbolt. Is this due to a defective motherboard or an issue with Thunderbolt support on AMD platforms? The motherboard is still under warranty and can be returned to Amazon. What should I do?

Thank you for your assistance.

[achugh]

@loup When I go to Caldigit website I only see TS4 Hub or TS3+ Hub. Not TS4+ hub as you mentioned above. Is this a TYPO mistake on your end. Do you have TS4 or TS3+?

Next you mentioned that you have USB 4.0 to Caldigit TS4+ hub but then you also mentioned you have one Thunderbolt 4 cable connected to my PC. Which is it? Do you have a Thunderbolt 4 cable from your PC to Caldigit Hub or a USB 4 cable? If you are using a Thunderbolt cable to connect your PC to Caldigit Hub, are you using the cable that came with your hub or some other cable?

Which Thunderbolt cable are you using to connect your UAD Apollo x4 to Caldigit hub? Apollo x4 does not come with a Thunderbolt cable?

If you connect your Caldigit hub to your MacBook Pro, does everything work? What type of MacBook pro do you have i.e. Model details of your MacBook Pro?

[loup]

Yes, sorry, my model is the CalDigit TS4 in Thunderbolt 4. The cable used between the PC and the hub is the original Caldigit Thunderbolt 4 cable. Indeed, the motherboard does not specify Thunderbolt 4 compatibility, probably due to licensing reasons, because if you look at the model of the USB 4 port used by the x670e-i (Intel® JHL8540 USB4), it is actually a Thunderbolt 4 port. I had already used my Caldigit TS4 on the Asus Crosshair x670 Gene motherboard, and it worked perfectly with USB 4. We can forget about the audio interface, I don't think the problem comes from there, as the computer crashes even when it's not connected.

As for my MacBook Pro, it's the MacBook Pro M2 Max 16" with 32GB RAM and 1TB storage. It works perfectly with the hub and the audio interface in a daisy chain

[achugh]

@loup Thanks for clarifying. Since your Caldigit Hub worked on Crosshair x670 Gene board, do you recall what Intel Driver version of the Thunderbolt Software did you use? Are you using the same driver version on your x670E-I board? What BIOS version you have installed? Is it the latest BIOS version for your board?

[loup]

Hi, thanks again for the help!

Unfortunately, I no longer have the x670 Crosshair Gene, so I don't know the driver version. As for the BIOS, I have the latest version 566 or something like that (I'm not home to check, but I'm sure it's the latest).

After several hours of testing, here’s what I found. Running "userdiag" in extreme mode with my Thunderbolt configuration, the computer crashes after a few minutes. I retested in extreme mode without connecting a monitor to the Thunderbolt dock to avoid using PCIe tunneling, and the test succeeded. So, it might be due to PCIe tunneling? What’s strange is that after a computer crash, on the next reboot, I have many Thunderbolt issues. For example, I connect my audio card alone via Thunderbolt 3 to USB 4, and the audio card also crashes with error codes related to the sound card software.

It's a real hassle, and I don't know if it's the model of the card that is completely unstable with Thunderbolt or if my unit is defective...

[achugh]

@loup Since your motherboard officially does not support Thunderbolt 4 I am not sure what kind of official help you will get from ASUS Customer Care. Technically there are difference between USB4 and Thunderbolt 4. It is not just a licensing thing. There are lots of articles that you can easily search detailing the differences between these two technologies. I believe https://www.tomsguide.com/features/thunderbolt-4-vs-usb4-whats-the-difference is a good start. It mentions that USB4 does not support WAKEUP from a sleep state which is factor in your case. Most importantly, you mentioned that you are daisy chaining things which USB4 does not support. Then there is dual monitor support that is missing. See quote below

But unlike Thunderbolt 4, it doesn’t have dual monitor support.

---

Also see this message 

And while USB4 is capable of delivering 100W of power, it has a minimum requirement of 7.5W.

---

What it is trying to say is that the only guaranteed power delivery is 7.5W which is the minimum. Thunderbolt minimums are much higher. These types of differences play a big role in device compatibility. ASUS has released for multiple boards USB Power Delivery Firmware updates to fix PD issues for device compatibilities.

You should also read https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-3-vs-4.h... which explains the difference between Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4. Couple of things at a MINIMUM level were increased giving us consumers a guarantee that if a device is labeled as thunderbolt 3 or 4 what minimums we can be assured to get from that device.

Lastly, here's what Intel has to say about Thunderbolt 4 and USB-C https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-4-vs-usb... 

You did mention that you specifically selected this board for its Thunderbolt support but this board is not meant for Thunderbolt 4. It is only supporting USB4. Do you still have time to replace it with a board that officially support Thunderbolt 4?

I hope this information helps you continue your journey to solve your issue.

[loup]

Thank you again!

I specifically chose this board for its Thunderbolt 4 capabilities. Although it doesn't bear the Thunderbolt 4 label, it does have the Thunderbolt 4 component. This is clearly stated in the motherboard specs: 2 x USB4® ports with Intel® JHL8540 USB4® controller (2 x USB Type-C®). The JHL8540 is indeed a Thunderbolt 4 module. Moreover, in the Thunderbolt software on Windows, it shows that we have Thunderbolt 4 (with PCIe tunneling). So, it seems this is purely a licensing issue since Thunderbolt is Intel's technology, and here we have an AMD setup.

Additionally, the x670 Crosshair Gene also only had USB 4.0 (still with the same JHL8540 controller) and it worked perfectly. A simple incompatibility shouldn't cause a sudden shutdown of the computer, should it?

[achugh]

Hi @loup ,

A simple incompatibility shouldn't cause a sudden shutdown of the computer, should it?

Ideally, it should not but realistically it does more often than you think. The Thunderbolt drivers are kernel level. This means if there are issues that the drivers cannot handle, it cause the OS to become unstable. This is why some of the expensive components are expensive because those companies have spent lot of time and effort to create a very stable driver.

Anyway, let us try few other things. Can you share if you have Memory Isolation ENABLED or DISABLED? You can check this out by going to your Windows 11 Settings. Then click on PRIVACY and SECURITY on the left hand side. Now click on WINDOWS SECURITY (1st item). Finally click on WINDOWS SECURITY button to open the Older (Windows 10) Settings menu. In this new window you will start with HOME menu on the left. Click on the DEVICE SECURITY TILE in the middle. Next click on CORE ISOLATION DETAILS (1st link). Finally on this screen you will see a TOGGLE showing MEMORY ISOLATION is ON or OFF. You can try to toggle and see if this helps avoid some of the crashes.

Next go to your DEVICE MANAGER and under SYSTEM you will see Thunderbolt Controller. Right click on it and choose properties. In the window that opens, go to DRIVER tab and paste a screenshot of what version you are using. You can also check on Intel Download Center if there is an updated version of the driver available for you. If it is, you can try installing that version to see if that helps as well.

[loup]

I tried disabling MEMORY ISOLATION but it didn't change anything, I still get a crash. Moreover, I can no longer activate it because there is a message: Resolve any driver incompatibility and rerun a scan. Here are the incompatible drivers:

• UAFWaudio.sys
• UAFWAudioMidi.sys (both drivers come from Universal Audio, the manufacturer of my Thunderbolt sound card)

Below is an example showing that the Thunderbolt port is indeed version 4 :

Here is also the version of my Thunderbolt driver in the device manager:

I should note that currently, when it crashes, the PC doesn't turn back on afterwards. To turn it back on, I have to unplug it and reset the CMOS. After the boot don't show anything, so I have to turn it down again. And after when rebooting again it working (each time the same). I need to specify that if I do a benchmark with Superposition Benchmark, for example in 1080p extreme, it works correctly. It seems to crash in userdiag during the GPU multicore tests. Everything is strange and there are so many different case combinations that it makes my reports very unclear, sorry for that.

Also my Thunderbolt driver is the 1.41.1325.0 but it was released in 2022/09/27, seems pretty old...

[loup]

I've tried reinstalling Windows 11 completely, but I get the same result. Additionally, userdiag in extreme mode always crashes at the same point (when I have my basic Thunderbolt chain). During the test: CPU multi-core + GPU (20 min).

Anyway, everything is strange, and the real question is whether the card is defective... Because everything seems okay driver-wise. Plus, everything works fine under light load. But as soon as I launch a video game or use userdiag, it crashes (oddly, the UNINGINE Superposition benchmark doesn't crash).