ROG X670E-E Gaming WiFi latest BIOS Update version 2604 CPU Ryzen 9 7900X3D

[Antares1503]

The description of the 2604 BIOS update is typically minimal:

Version 260415.51 MB 2024/12/05

1.Updated AMD AGESA to version 1.2.0.2b
2.Fixed a few fan-related bugs and 3. Improved overall system performance.

I updated from BIOS version 2506, resetting the BIOS to default settings before proceeding, all went smoothly but several noticeable changes:

1. On 2506 my DDR5 6000 RAM (2x32GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo CL30-40-40-96 1.4V) ran perfectly happily on ExpoII settings and VDD and VDDQ DRAM Voltages of 1.35V and the system was stable

On 2604 the system will not boot on ExpoII settings at 1.35 or 1.4V but is rock steady on ExpoI settings at 1.4V.

The only thing that has changed on the system was the BIOS update so why the changes in behaviour? I guess the answer is buried somewhere in the black box of changes made to "improve overall performance"

2. Not only that but for BIOS versions 2408 and 2506 I have been using buildzoids secondary timings for my DDR5 RAM and they were stable: Low effort Single rank Hynix 16Gb A/M-die timings for Ryzen 7000 at 6000Mbps | Patreon After the BIOS updates the PC will not post with my previous secondary timings and motherboard LED is lit and yellow indicating a memory issue. So again what might be causing this change in behaviour?

I will experiment with adjusting the secondary timings over the next few days but I was wondering if any other people had had similar issues after updating to BIOS version 2604 and if they overcame them if you could post a ZenTimings picture of your secondary settings that worked then it might save me some time.

Thanks

[BitingChaos]

This is a common issue with a lot of people. I have the X670E-A w/ 9700X, 6000MT/s, CL30.

I'm still trying to find info on it. You can search this forum or others to find people having the same issue with BIOS 2604 (and BIOS 0706 on 800-series boards). I brought it up on reddit, as well.

I can easily reproduce the issue:

BIOS 2506, clear CMOS, set RAM to EXPO II: success!
BIOS 2604, clear CMOS, set RAM to EXPO II: boot failure.

No other changes. Just clear CMOS and set RAM. 100% successful boot in 2605, 100% failure to boot in 2604. Tested with G.Skill (F5-6000J3040G32GX2-FX5) and Kingston (KF560C30BBEK2-64) RAM kits.

I assumed something with the memory timings or memory training broke with 2604 vs. 2605.
However, when I set my RAM to 6200 MT (higher than its rated speed), my system with 2604 booted up just fine, albeit with a 1600 UCLK.

That got me thinking that maybe something else changed. Not necessarily with the memory, but with the CPU or UCLK.

Try this:

First, disconnect power and clear your CMOS (jumper, battery, or button) to start fresh. Set "UCLK=MEMCLK" in BIOS (to ensure 1:1), and then change "SoC/Uncore OC Mode" from Auto to Enabled. Now see if you can set memory timings.

I don't know if that's the fix, but I do know that I was able to boot at 6200 MT w/ 3100 UCLK. RAM Test/TestMem5 isn't stable at that for me, so I went back to 6000 MT/3000 UCLK with EXPO II, which booted right up. Again, I don't know what the fix is, but I do know that for the first time in the past 6 days, I'm sitting here at my Desktop booted at 6000 MT / EXPO II on BIOS 2604.

My ZenTimings in 2506 and 2604 are identical.

[Silent_Scone]

1.2.0.2b does seem to have issues with DRAM OC for some users, predominantly with a-die modules.

Can I ask why you're using EXPO II? EXPO I is the board-validated profile used by both the memory vendor and ASUS for QVL entry.

EXPO II is the default DIMM timings. I'm not saying it will circumvent the instability, but you should always use EXPO I where possible.

[Antares1503]

@BitingChaos I mentioned earlier that I had performed most of the steps you mention and a few more during my troubleshooting and my system is stable on EXPOI with no secondary timings set but not stable on EXPOII. If you have secondary timings set that are stable I would be grateful if you could post them here using something like Zentimings 

@RPausK it is possible to revert (downgrade) to an earlier version of your BIOS using the EZFlash 3 tool but ensure you set your BIOS settings to default, reboot and then clear CMOS before doing so using EZFlash. These are more or less the same steps you would take if upgrading your BIOS. However if you feel comfortable around managing your BIOS I would suggest you try the following:

Set BIOS to default values and reboot. Assuming your system posts and boots into Windows OK use this free program ZenTimings to note your primary DRAM settings tCL, tRCD, tRP and tRAS, they will be very different from your DRAM specifications but provide a baseline for settings that definitely work. Next try the following

1. In your BIOS set the following manually according to your DRAM specifications I have presumed some values because your DRAM PN is the same as mine but do check your RAM spec.

a) rCL =30

b) RAM Speed 6000 MHz, FCLK = 2000

c) RAM Voltage (VDD and VDDQ) 1.4V

d) CPU SOC 1.2V

e) In DRAM Timings set Div1Mode UCLK=MEMCLK

f) Set MemoryContextRestore = Enabled

g) LEAVE ALL OTHER SETTINGS ON AUTO

g) Save settings and reboot

If your system posts and boots into windows you have your DDR5 RAM running at 6000 MHz which is the primary goal. Then use Zen Timings to review you new Primary Timings, rCL should = 30 matching your DRAM spec but tRCD, tRP and tRAS will be different. Look at the difference between the existing values and your DRAM spec.

Next go into BIOS and start to decrease your tRCD and tRP values in sync in steps of 10 so it approaches the expected value of your DRAM spec. After each change save, reboot and check system posts and boots into windows, leave your tRAS setting on Auto. It is a good idea to let the system sit idling for 5 mins to see if any BSOD pops up. If all is OK then reboot go into BIOS and make next change. If system fails then try increasing from last value by 5 instead of 10 and narrow the value down to a setting that works. So at the end you have RAM timings are close to DRAM spec in terms of speed tCL, tRCD, tRP and working Voltage.

So now use the same approach to incrementally  lower your tRAS so it approaches your DRAM specification.

This approach does take a bit of time and fiddling around but the end you may well end up with slightly looser timings that are very close to the expected values so as to make very little difference and you will be on the latest BIOS

Apologies for the long reply

[RPausK]

Thank you very much for your detailed advice. I was able to downgrade to BIOS 2506 - but my system is still behaving strangely: From a fresh BIOS setup with default values (pressed F5 in BIOS) I am able to set EXPO I, system boots and is showing RAM at 6000 MHz. Cinebench runs perfectly - no issues at all. Then - after restart, system does not pass POST and goes again straight into BIOS 🙂

Manually set according to steps a) - g) of your description does not work for me either.

With EXPO I selected but RAM frequency set to 5800 MHz (instead of 6000 MHz) system seems to run stable (from what I have tested so far).

Could there be a problem with one of the RAM sticks? The sticks are installed correctly (A2, B2), MemTest86 shows no error ...

Any advice?

[BitingChaos]

Something to note, AMD's specs say these chips can all handle their memory controller (UCLK) going up to 2800 MHz (5600 MT/s). They don't guarantee anything beyond that.

As part of the fun testing I do, when overclocking memory beyond what it says it can do, I realized I'm also pushing the CPU way beyond what it's supposed to be able to do. To help increase stability of UCLK, I have to bump VSOC.

My system seems to default to 1.25v for its VSOC (which is also what seems to directly control the UCLK's capabilities). Bumping this up to 1.265v (just a 0.015v increase) allows my UCLK to hit 3100 MHz (6200 MT/s). My system boots, passed MemTest86+, and then passed 12+ hours of Karhu RAM Test (I'm testing F5-6000J3040G32G right now). If my VSOC is lower than 1.265v then my UCLK cannot reliably run at 3100 MHz. VSOC lower than 1.25v and my UCLK cannot even get to 3000 MHz (6000 MT/s).

So, what is your VSOC at? Maybe try bumping it by 0.005v increments to see if you can run your memory at its advertised speed (the limit set by AMD for the VSOC is 1.3v, so just make sure to stay under this). Just because the RAM says it can run at 3000 MHz (6000 MT/s) doesn't mean your CPU can run its UCLK at that speed at its default voltages. AMD and the motherboard manufacturers will tell you all day that running this memory at their advertised speed is still considered overclocking. You are trying to force UCLK to run faster than AMD's documented limit. And overclocking may require some extra steps, such as bumping the voltage of the VSOC.

[RPausK]

I really appreciate your support.

This PC is my first AMD build - and as all components of my build are certified to be compatible which each other (regarding EXPO) I expected no problems with this out-of-the-box DDR5-6000 EXPO setup.

AMD advertises its EXPO with "Created for AMD Ryzen™ processors on socket AM5, users get easy DDR5 memory overclocking with AMD Ryzen-optimized profiles for the best performance and experience."  Strong words - but if I can get the advantages of top memory performance only with getting knowledgeable in deep overclocking skills - EXPO does not stand the truth.

To be honest - I had absolute no problems with INTEL XMP in all my builds before... 

[Antares1503]

@RPausK If you have expo1 settings and a stable PC running memory at 5800 MHz then the performance hit from running the DDR5 at 5800 vs 6000 is likely to be small, you might consider taking it as a win and start having fun on your PC even though it is annoying that your RAM specifies 6000 MHz.

Otherwise, to test your memory sticks I think you need to run memtest86 for at least 4 hours (some people would say overnight) I am not sure you can do this with the free version of memtest86 you may need to purchase memtest86 pro. I would test initially with both sticks in place since if there are no errors you know both sticks are good. If you get errors then test sticks separately

[Silent_Scone]

@Antares1503  Please can you list the actual DRAM part number, thanks

[BitingChaos]

For my setup, G.Skill (F5-6000J3040G32G) and Kingston (KF560C30BBEK2-64) RAM kits are what I have right now. Both 2x32 DR, SK Hynix. Kingston is A-die. I think the G.Skill is, as well. G.Skill is Hynix M-Die.

I was using EXPO II because of the tighter timings specified by the manufacturer. But EXPO I fails just as often for me on BIOS 2604.