Crosshair VII Hero Essential Info Thread

[gupsterg]

Last update: 17/11/18

Last 3 updates to OP:-

i) Added section Is the lack of ASUS T-Topology an issue on C7H?

ii) Added section To use manual OC or Precision Boost Override? (see post 3)

iii) ASUS PE section has new link to post by The Stilt on his tweak in PE3/4.

ROG Crosshair VII Hero
Essential Info Thread



by Elmor

Ryzen: Strictly technical - Chapter: Pinnacle Ridge By The Stilt

ZEN+ Delidded - Before/After Temperatures - [Ryzen 5, 7, 2600, 2700X] by Der8auer

ASUS CROSSHAIR VII HERO - Everything You Need To Know! X470 In Depth Review by Der8auer

Elmor's C7H UEFI folder link

PSA regarding C7H:-

Early batch of motherboards will exhibit an issue where [Auto] or manually set 1.05V for 1.05V SB voltage is shown as ~+50mV in UEFI readback box, SW monitoring in OS and on ProbeIt points. See the post by Elmor on OCN regarding this, link.

Do not use HWMonitor, it shows monitoring data which is not actually occurring, excessive CPU/RAM MHz, etc.

Preface

A C7H has been supplied to me by ASUS 😄 , courtesy of ASUS and Elmor :cool: . I do not work for ASUS or have any committent to them, I am just a "user" who has received a sample and doing what I would do if I had bought a C7H.

My plan is to expand OP to collate essential information for using this board. It will be gathered from web/user shares/own meddling. It will emulate some threads I did on OCN for Ryzen+C6H & TR+ZE; so do check back 🙂 .

Ryzen 2nd Gen "Pinnacle Ridge"





The C7H review by The Stilt

Original link, translated link.

• RAM Slots are daisy chain topology instead of ASUS T-Topology on C6H. Daisy chain favours 2 dimm slots/1DPC config.
  
• VRM 10+2 phases, 10 for VCORE, 2 for SOC, the mosfets have integrated temperature sensors.
  
• Six layer PCB.
  

Besides other information within review, I really liked the data on VRM information.



Is the lack of ASUS T-Topology an issue on C7H?

From my experience in some ways yes and no. I have found same CPU/RAM used on C6H you will have an easier ride with 4 dimms than C7H. I used Samsung B die single sided/ranked 8GB dimms.

A recent post by The Stilt highlighted how motherboard vendors can not tune firmware as they can on Intel platform (source link).

The worst memory related issue on this platform is that there is no way to tune the memory controller parameters. They are hard coded into the memory controller firmware (PMU) and cannot be changed by anyone but AMD. This prevents the manufacturers from optimizing the parameters specifically for their designs.

From what I have read in some detailed reviews is that AMD guidance on RAM tracing is daisy chain, so I would assume the firmware would be better tuned by AMD for that topology. Which favours the C7H as it uses daisy chain topology.

ASUS Performance Enhancer

Options within UEFI page Advanced > AMD CBS > NBIO Common Options > Precision Boost Override Configuration (Changed to XFR Enhancement in UEFI 1101). Precision Boost Override term is Precision Boost Overdrive. Some useful links to reference:-

• What each preset level of PE tweaks, link.
  
• Some further information from The Stilt on PE levels, link.
  
• Some further information from The Stilt on voltages seen when using PE, link.
  
• This linked post is also interesting on what the tweak within PE3/4 does.
  
  

  Even if you run 2700X with LN2 and disable all of the power / current limits, it will not boost higher than e.g. 4.35GHz for the best two cores of the CPU.
  
  4.35GHz for the best two cores of the CPU (marked with a golden and silver star in Ryzen Master), 4.2GHz for the rest (1-2C load).
  4.075GHz for all cores, unless limited by PPT, TDC, EDC, thermal or reliability (FIT). Clock reductions starts at 85°C (95°C tCTL), unless configured to a lower value.
  
  The power management must be reconfigured in order to allow higher frequencies, my "eXFR" ("Performance Enhancer" on ASUS boards) does just that.

  
  
  

ASUS Performance Enhancer/Precision Boost Override/Precision Boost Overdrive simply put allows a user of Ryzen to retain single core/thread boosting, but tweak nThread/Core boosting (ref above image).

You can also setup your own Performance Enhancer/Precision Boost Override Configuration (Changed to XFR Enhancement in UEFI 1101).

Note: Not available on Non X CPU.



PPT Limit - Package Power Tracking, watts limit CPU can use.

TDC Limit -Thermal Design Current, maximum current the VRM can supply to CPU, based on thermal aspect of VRM.

EDC Limit - Electrical Design Current, maximum peak current the VRM can supply to CPU, based on VRM components.

Precision Boost Overide Scalar - Increased scalar value relaxes voltage limiting rules of FIT monitoring.

These settings info is based on previous linked post plus quote below from The Stilt Ryzen: Strictly technical thread.

The "Precision Boost Override" feature available on 400-series motherboards allows increasing the physical limiters mentioned earlier. On SKUs belonging to the 105W TDP infrastructure group, the default limiters are following: PPT 141.75W, TDC 95A, EDC 140A and tJMax of 85°C (absolute, excl. offset).

When "Precision Boost Override" mode is enabled (AGESA default), PPT becomes essentially unrestricted (1000W), TDC is set to 114A and EDC to 168A. These limits can be customized by the ODM so that the new limits will comply with the electrical characteristics of the motherboard design in question.

Here is a link to a thread that people tinkering with PBO may find handy, link. Also below is images from Threadripper gen 2 launch slide deck with good info on PBO.



Which core is best?

As of HWINFO v5.83-3435 "Core Quality" is being shown, link to author's post. Perf #0 being best and highest # being worst. Latest Ryzen Master on Pinnacle Ridge only shows best core (denoted by gold star ) and second best (denoted by silver star).



BCLK Fluctuations?

Ryzen has no hardware to readback BCLK correctly. Now some owners of Ryzen/C7H may say I've never noted a fluctuation, there could be a few reasons to this.

• They have not captured it, as they did not have monitoring running at the time of event.
  
  
• Like HW, but differing samples can exhibit difference in fluctuation of BCLK readback. This is not limited to AMD CPUs without hardware to readback BCLK, but even Intel CPUs can exhibit this.
  
  
• They have correctly set up HWINFO for BCLK monitoring on CPUs without hardware for BCLK readback. When launching HWINFO pick settings, then untick option in below image highlighted in red.
  

So all in all what you set as BCLK in UEFI is what Ryzen/ASUS board will use and it is a steady frequency. This was confirmed in C6H thread at launch by Elmor who works in ASUS ROG MB R&D.

Which Prime95 to use?

The Stilt has advised v28.10 build 1 is best to use (link to app in this post), using custom setup of 128K 128K in place FFT will enable user to get correct CPU voltage setup. Then I use also custom setup of 8K 4096K with ~13GB RAM used out of 16GB (ie ~80% installed RAM); this will exercise the CPU/IMC/RAM.

How to test single or multiple cores?

Use HWINFO to identify core "Quality", perf #0 is best core and 7 is worst. Then ref below image on setting affinity and setup of P95. If using W10, in Task Manager click "Details" tab, find prime95.exe, right click and select "Set affinity" and you will see similar as screenie below.



Load Line Calibration!?

This cropped ups pretty much daily. The problem I think is there are far too many youtube video where you have x person setting y voltage on a board and then saying ahh look it drooped to z. What they over look saying is there is a load line specification. Even a video I saw around Ryzen launch where Robert Hallock from AMD is feature skimmed over the subject with the usual nonsense. At least at the time we had The Stilt and Raja@ASUS to guide us 😉 .

Any how here we go with the info:-

i) Der8auer has a great video on the subject, link.

ii) AM4 LL spec by AMD and info on dLDO by The Stilt.

iii) LLC on C6H, link 2 by The Stilt (still relevant for C7H).

iv) How to calculate VDROOP by The Stilt.

So I set a 4.0GHz PState 0 and VID of 1.281V, stock LLC (ie [Auto]). In UEFI, which creates load on CPU (you'll see even when CPU default it will PB/XFR in UEFI), I saw ~1.274V steady on DMM applied to ProbeIt point. UEFI readback box was bouncing, at and ever so slightly below VID set.

In OS whilst I had P95 loading CPU with custom 128K 128K in place FFT I saw ~1.208V on DMM applied to ProbeIt point.



Light load (ie UEFI) VDROOP was less, as when CPU come off load it is not gonna overshoot wildly. Heavy load led to more VDROOP, which again makes sense. As when using stock LLC it should be this way, so I get less of an overshoot when CPU come off load vs increased LLC.

Below is a simple graphic to show load line effect and calibration.



What about CPU voltage!?

Many I time since moving to Ryzen I will see discussions based on when CPU is stock that (x)V is observed in usage, so CPU must be able to sustain that when OC'ing!?

To see what the actual maximum voltage FIT allows the CPU to run at in various different scenarios is, I disabled all of the other limiters and safe guards. With every other limiter / safe guard disabled, the reliability (FIT) becomes the only restrain. The voltage command which the CPU sends to the VRM regulator via the SVI2 interface and the actual effective voltage were then recorded in various scenarios. In stock configuration the sustained maximum effective voltage during all-core stress allowed by FIT was =< 1.330V. Meanwhile, in single core workloads the sustained maximum was =< 1.425V. When the “FIT� parameters were adjusted by increasing the scalar value from the default 1x to the maximum allowed value of 10x, the maximum all-core voltage became 1.380V, while the maximum single core voltage increased to 1.480V. The recorded figures appear to fall very well in line with the seen and known behavior, frequency, power and thermal scaling wise.

The seen behaviour suggests that the full silicon reliability can be maintained up to around 1.330V in all-core workloads (i.e. high current) and up to 1.425V in single core workloads (i.e. low current). Use of higher voltages is definitely possible (as FIT will allow up to 1.380V / 1.480V when scalar is increased by 10x), but it more than likely results in reduced silicon lifetime / reliability. By how much? Only the good folks at AMD who have access to the simulation data will know for sure.

Quote source link

What should SOC voltage be set to!?

The C7H increases SOC when left on [Auto] based on "auto rule" not an "auto determination" of silicon characteristics. Increasing RAM past official speeds makes this occur. Best is to tune SOC as required. The Stilt experience quoted below.

There are clear differences in how the memory controller behaves on the different CPU specimens. The majority of the CPUs will do 3466MHz or higher at 1.050V SoC voltage, however the difference lies in how the different specimens react to the voltage. Some of the specimens seem scale with the increased SoC voltage, while the others simply refuse to scale at all or in some cases even illustrate negative scaling. All of the tested samples illustrated negative scaling (i.e. more errors or failures to train) when higher than 1.150V SoC was used. In all cases the maximum memory frequency was achieved at =< 1.100V SoC voltage.

I have found my R7 2700X (Batch: UA 1805SUS) scales this way for SOC:-

3200MHz set to 0.900V in UEFI (Tested using The Stilt Safe 3200MHz timings preset but TRC 44 & TRFC 256)
3333MHz set to 0.912V in UEFI (Tested using The Stilt Fast 3333MHz timings preset)
3400MHz set to 0.925V in UEFI (Tested using The Stilt Fast 3466MHz timings preset)
3466MHz set to 0.956V in UEFI (Tested using The Stilt Fast 3466MHz timings preset) Note: If CPU stock
3466MHz set to 0.968V in UEFI (Tested using The Stilt Fast 3466MHz timings preset) Note: CPU PState 0 OC 4.1GHz

All testing above so far on UEFI 0601, RAM used F4-3200C14D-16GTZ, CPU was stock. I found at UEFI defaults the SOC was ~0.800V, I just picked 0.900V for my starting point. Perhaps 3200MHz could be attained with less SOC on my CPU, I may test this at later stage.

Is RAM MHz king?

As with Summit Ridge, Pinnacle Ridge also at >3200MHz RAM timings play a bigger role than frequency. This article pits The Stilt's 3466MHz preset found in "DRAM Timings Control" of UEFI against upto 3600MHz C16.

What RAM to get?

Samsung B Die single rank/sided is the most favoured RAM IC for Ryzen, in useful links is a thread with helpful info when making a purchase. In regard to QVL I share The Stilt's opinion, link. I have used non QVL RAM with C6H, ZE and plan to do so with C7H. There are many user shares of having bought QVL listed RAM and not gaining higher speeds. Reference below image to know what is OC RAM speed on Ryzen.

Ryzen gen 1 officially supported max 2666MHz for single rank/sided in 1 dimm per channel configuration, gen 2 is 2933MHz. This increase may have been gained by tweaks to silicon and or AGESA, or perhaps eaten into OC headroom, I have no idea. In a nutshell I'd say keep expectations realistic, higher density RAM usage equals lower attainable MHz, generally speaking. Be prepared to put in some time and effort to gain higher speed RAM. Below is a table from Ryzen gen 1 reviewers guide, but with added gen 2 officially supported RAM MHz info.



Note: Only SR config has gained increased RAM MHz officially, this information was confirmed via another mobo maker and consulted The Stilt.

Testing RAM stability?

HCI Memtest and GSAT have been mainly what I have used. Little while back a new app has hit the scene, RAM Test by Karhu Software. This app was developed with the support of Ryzen owners on a Finnish forum. When I read The Stilt approved of this app that was all I needed to know to recommend it also. There is also a thread on OCN regarding this app, link.

Below listed sections moved to post 3:-

RAM Timings Info

How to use Flashback (ie updating motherboard UEFI)

How many ways does the board post!?

Some of what I do with OC'ing

Creating Window 7 ISO with drivers for usage on C7H

FAQ

Useful Links

[mindbender33]

gupsterg wrote:
I usually type a voltage into box. I do not think I have ever clicked it/selected it by keyboard and seen a drop down box for that setting. Once there is a voltage typed in within box, I can change it up or down a step using the keyboard. Usually use + / - on numeric keypad.

Not seen any page on my rig which will show 2133MHz as MAX if I have selected say 2933MHz and applied it.

I meant to quote this as well. Thanks again!

[gupsterg]

@mindbender33

No problem 🙂 .

@HiVizMan

No chap you did not understand me on this 🙂 .

Usually I don't need to press the + / - hundred times as then would opt to type the voltage in 🙂 . I opt to use the + / - when just testing if a step or so is what I need. I only stated both methods as it seemed member was unaware how the UEFI setting is used for input 🙂 .

I do not usually do CMOSCLR, reason being I use Flashback 🙂 . I don't use OS / UEFI UEFI update menu 🙂 . I prefer Flashback as it is being done without system being powered, so let's say you did have flakey profile / hardware your UEFI flash is not going to be affected by it.

Flashback method uses an IC on the motherboard to flash the BIOS chip, it is essentially a hardwired hardware flash tool 🙂 . As the BIOS chip would have been erased and flashed with new UEFI why would I wish to do CMOSCLR? Only time I usually consider it, is if I was having a real ball ache of time with something and wanted to exhaust all possibilities before investigating something else.

There are other benefits of Flashback which are handy 🙂 .

i) It can allow you to flash a beta / older UEFI which may be blocked by other methods.
ii) It can allow you to flash unsigned modded UEFI if you wanted to.

I always look to see if a board supports flashback TBH, as value it 🙂 .

[mindbender33]

gupsterg wrote:
@mindbender33

No problem 🙂 .

@HiVizMan

No chap you did not understand me on this 🙂 .

Usually I don't need to press the + / - hundred times as then would opt to type the voltage in 🙂 . I opt to use the + / - when just testing if a step or so is what I need. I only stated both methods as it seemed member was unaware how the UEFI setting is used for input 🙂 .

I do not usually do CMOSCLR, reason being I use Flashback 🙂 . I don't use OS / UEFI UEFI update menu 🙂 . I prefer Flashback as it is being done without system being powered, so let's say you did have flakey profile / hardware your UEFI flash is not going to be affected by it.

Flashback method uses an IC on the motherboard to flash the BIOS chip, it is essentially a hardwired hardware flash tool 🙂 . As the BIOS chip would have been erased and flashed with new UEFI why would I wish to do CMOSCLR? Only time I usually consider it, is if I was having a real ball ache of time with something and wanted to exhaust all possibilities before investigating something else.

There are other benefits of Flashback which are handy 🙂 .

i) It can allow you to flash a beta / older UEFI which may be blocked by other methods.
ii) It can allow you to flash unsigned modded UEFI if you wanted to.

I always look to see if a board supports flashback TBH, as value it 🙂 .

I see I didn't really explain why I cleared the CMOS. I installed new RAM and a new, different video card at the same time. I did not try to boot before clearing the CMOS. Perhaps I should have? Is there a better thing to do?
As for when I mentioned flashing the BIOS, I have only done it once and that was to make sure my board could handle the 2nd gen Ryzen.

I hope this reply doesn't sound "smart ass-y" because it is not intended that way at all. I seriously want to learn and sometimes people take me wrong. Thank you to everyone for the replies and help. I am so glad to find this thread. I am in the process of reading it in its entirety. There are a lot of very smart, helpful people here!

[Dicehunter]

I'm curious to know why the downloads page for drivers for the CH7 keeps disappearing.

[Silent_Scone]

Hi, please find below links for BETA UEFI 1103. Please note this BIOS is for testing only and has yet to be validated.

CH7 1103 - Link

CH7 1103 WIFI - Link


Changes: Agesa 1006

[gupsterg]

Been working well for me 🙂 .

I had noted the UEFI's with AGESA 1.0.0.6 seem to not any more allow manual tweaks of PBO, this seems is down to AMD AGESA removing the options :eek:, this post by The Stilt confirms it.

Another great post is in regard to XMP on AMD boards, link. AGESA 1.0.0.6 also has an option called SPD Read Optimization, this is enabled by default; so full SPD is not read. To me it seems quite a bit of lock out exists on platform, The Stilt shared this info a little while back, link. Looking at it overall I reckon very little of a XMP profile is used, as even when I usually select D.O.C.P some of the timings which exist in profile are not applied, but more like defaults that AMD AGESA is dictating based on RAM density, frequency, etc.

Another thing that has sorta perplexed me on C7H is how ProcODT 48 seems right for 2x8GB SS/SR and 4x8GB SS/SR. Again a share by The Stilt verifies that this is not unusual when compared with experience of X370/X399, link.

Recently another unusual fix has resolved trying to nail POST to POST stability for say 3333MHz C14 1T on 4x8GB. Matching VDDP and CLDO_VDDP allowed no deterioration in stability on 6+ consecutive warm POSTs. Default is 0.900V for VDDP and 950mV for CLDO_VDDP, using 0.915V and 915mV has worked brilliantly for my combined hardware/targetted settings.

All in all pretty happy with C7H. Only a little disappointed that ASUS T-Topology was phased out from it, but reading what The Stilt has stated daisy chain may actually be better due to AMD locking out board makers from tuning aspects. VTTDDR and VDDP both have less granularity for settable voltages on C7H vs C6H, dunno if a biggie, but I prefer all options to be open.

[Tunza]

gupsterg wrote:
Been working well for me 🙂 .

Recently another unusual fix has resolved trying to nail POST to POST stability for say 3333MHz C14 1T on 4x8GB. Matching VDDP and CLDO_VDDP allowed no deterioration in stability on 6+ consecutive warm POSTs. Default is 0.900V for VDDP and 950mV for CLDO_VDDP, using 0.915V and 915mV has worked brilliantly for my combined hardware/targetted settings.

This is something I have always struggled with. I just press restart until I pass post. I only ever have to restart once luckily. I will give your solution a try. Thanks

Regards,

Tunza Down Unda

[Dicehunter]

Just curious but why was the latest chipset driver removed from the downloads page ? Did a fresh install of windows and now have to use an older driver.

[gupsterg]

No idea. Personally I'd stick to using the ones off AMD site. I doubt you lost any performance/stability, etc and really don't think the new ones would have given any substantial gains.

X470 wasn't some large jump in chipset IMO, so as it's very very similar to X370 we've probably had very decent drivers for it from the get go. Any of these driver changes have probably been bug fixes which you may or may not be experiencing.

The big change in the chipset will be in the power consumption. Currently the X370 chipset, built on a 55nm manufacturing process using ASMedia IP, runs at a 6.8W TDP (running at full load). For X470, we were told that this is the same process and IP, but the chip will now run at 4.8W peak and 1.9W in an idle mode. This is due to an improved power infrastructure within the chip, and AMD also claims that overall throughput is improved. The chipset firmware is also set to provide better memory OC support and stability.

The other factor in this is StoreMI, on the next page. This new feature technically does not require chipset support, however the free installer will check for the presence of an X470 chipset before providing a free license, otherwise the software will cost $20 and not have AMD branding

Quote source link.

[darkspr1te]

I Was wondering if anyone had looked into what effect bios versions have on your overall system performance.
I ask as I got my board November 2018, odly enough with a 0207 version bios, combined with corsair h100i cooler and
ryzen 2700x cpu. The out of box CB15 results were 1764 and 1827 with o/c as provided by gupsterg in the first few posts
give or take a few mistakes or omissions.
As I got further along the bios timeline my results worsen quite a lot to the point where a
out of box result is around 1690-/+ and a mild overclock will yield upto 1710-/+.
Silicon lottery aside what sort of results do people get for their default goto bios version,
This kind of information seems to be hard to find and often buried in multiple posts of assumptions, misinformation and
re-posts are just the start.
I have also noticed al lost of posts where users say " oh i just got cpu at 1.4 and neg of 0.05 and pe of 2, i get 1950 on CB15",
iám a smart fellow but i've not read up on overclocking terminology of late, I do understand it when i can get a explanation
of the settings effect/proper name,it's another case of too many TLA's.
It would be nice to have bios version, a export of the settings in both cmo format and text
(asus profile, load/save then press F2 for the direct loadable BIOS setting profile and CTRL+F2 for a text file while can help you transfer you settings to the next revision)
, this would give some users a place to at least start , AMD seems to have more menu per mile than i've ever seem intel side
even in hacked bios systems

In Order to help I have downloaded every bios version available for this board and i am flashing via a EEPROM programmer,
this is the only way i can assure myself there is no left over bios residue.
I will also video the Q-Code/video and board for first time boot, this may help users decide if they are having training issues
or it's just this bios is slow (1002 is much faster as base boot than 0507). Some bios do different things at boot too, some will
reboot at the point of loading eufi files, other skip that step but will display "flashing bios" just after a fresh flash via
bios ez-flash. Some bios have quirks, example is V1002 will allow me to apply a 3600Mhz DOCP PE2 profile from first boot but
other bios versions require me to have booted a clean O/c free bios into windows at least once before i apply a O/C of any type.
(Q-Code F9/power off is a sign of this)



Another thing i'am looking at is a simple app to import a text bios export and display only the changes needed from default
aka "optimized defaults" or cmos reset, i would love some info on the bios's cmo file just to read basic info like which version
bios created it but alas info on that file is thin on the ground and i also think different bios versions will almost have
different file format.

any feedback is most welcome, if any export feels it wont yield any worthwhile information the it would be a dead project from the start



Reference Info

02/03/2018 Bios 0207

Initial release

16/03/2018 Bios 0401
19/04/2018 Bios 0509

Update AGESA 1.0.0.2a

18/05/2018 Bios 0601

1. Update SMU Firmware to version 43.18.0
2. Update RAID driver to version 9.2.0.41.
3. Update Asus Grid notification behavior

22/06/2018 Bios 0702

Update Agesa Code to 1.0.0.2c.
Update compatibility protocol for 3rd party hardware monitoring software.
Fixed miscellaneous issues with fan calibration/options.
Improve memory compatibility.

24/07/2018 Bios 0804

1. Improve system stability
2. Improve Secure Erase function on NVMe devices
3. Update LPPT firmware

02/11/2018 Bios 1002
30/11/2018 Bios 1103

1. Update AMD AGESA version to 1.0.0.6
2. Improve system stability

04/01/2018 Bios 1201

darkspr1te